Podcast shout-outs

Man, the comedy podcast world is thriving. The only downside is that there are so many great ones to choose from, life gets in the way of listening to most of them. If you're wondering where to begin (after going through the What's So Funny? archives first, of course!), here are some recommendations with a local angle:

WTF with Marc Maron

Episode 314 (released on Sept. 13): Vancouver's own Kliph Nesteroff is the guest. The former comic is a big deal now. His in-depth articles on WFMU's blog, and his own site classicshowbiz.com, are a portal into the early stand-up comedy, from the 1940s through to the 1970s, give or take. The depth of his research is impressive and the 32-year-old, who never watched these legends in real time, can teach even oldsters like me and Maron a thing or two about comics we grew up watching – guys like Jack Carter and Milton Berle. Kliph (who's been on What's So Funny? half a dozen times) killed it on the much more popular WTF. While he's hugely respected among certain old-timers and show business history buffs, his appearance with Maron will no doubt get his name and work out to many more. I understand he recently signed a big book deal with a major US publisher.

Who Charted? with Howard Kremer and Kulap Vilaysack

Episode 95 (released on Sept. 26): Vancouver gets a big shout-out from guest Zach Galifianakis. Zach has spent a good chunk of time in our fair city over the years. He's even got in-laws here. Hell, he got married here this past August. He used to be a regular in the local comedy rooms while filming whatever horrible TV show he was starring in at the time. He was such a regular – and still under the radar – that a big-wig like JP Buck, who's now the comedy booker on Conan, thought Zach was a local Vancouverite. But everyone knows the guy now, thanks to Hollywood. And he hasn't forgotten about us. Not only does he laud the local comedy scene in this episode of Who Charted?, he singles out Graham Clark as a comedian more people should know about. So listen for that. If you're unfamiliar with Who Charted?, give it a try. It's one of my favourites. Kremer is spaced out and hilarious while Vilaysack keeps things on track and supplies the most awesome laugh in podcasts. The show is centred around, you guessed it, charts. They play snippets of top 5 songs, movies, you name it. Anything with a list. They're jumping off points for discussion and laughs. Fun times.

Stop Podcasting Yourself with Graham Clark and Dave Shumka

Speaking of Graham Clark, he and Dave Shumka co-host the best podcast in Canada (according to the Canadian Comedy Awards last August). They get all manner of funny people as guests, from locals to international, and they have amassed a following all over the world. There isn't one particular episode to highlight here, although episode 55 is probably the best one they've ever done.



Doug Loves Movies with Doug Benson

The local angle here is that this hilariously silly live podcast, which is a film-based comedy game show, is recording here in Vancouver at the Comedy MIX on Saturday, November 17. Tickets on sale now for a mere $20 (+ HST). It won't be a surprise to you that the start time for this show hosted by the star of Super High Me is 4:20 pm. Doors open at 3:15. Last time he was here he sold out, so put down your bong and get on this.

Kliph Nesteroff on WTF with Marc Maron

Big ups to local boy Kliph Nesteroff, who is on the latest episode of WTF with Marc Maron. This is huge. Maron is the modern-day Johnny Carson in that it's a real mark of honour for a comic (and comedy-related people) to get on the show. And when they do, legions of fans can follow. I haven't heard the episode yet because I'm a bit anal in that I have to listen to them in order. I've been listening since the very beginning and have heard every single episode all the way through. Maron does two a week, which is a little exhausting, and who has the time to listen as soon as they come out? Not I. Nesteroff is on episode 314 while I'm currently in the middle of episode 301, so it'll be a week or two before I get to it. But I'm sure it's excellent.

Funny story: A few weeks ago I was in Victoria for the Blue Bridge Comedy Festival. I'm standing in line outside what used to be Harpo's (I can't keep up with the name changes in my hometown) to get in to Maron's show. Marc wanders around outside, spots me, and comes up to talk for a bit. He engages a few of the excited fans around me then says he's got to go in. After he left, an older man behind me asks if I know him. I say, "A little bit. But I'm still standing in line so obviously not that much." I tell the guy I've interviewed him a few times and that I do a podcast, too. He asks the name of it and I dutifully tell him What's So Funny? "Oh!" says the guy. "I know that one. You had Kliph Nesteroff on!"

The guy didn't know Kliph, he was just a fan of Kliph's blog and had searched him out on the podcast. Small world. I messaged Kliph to relate the story to him but he didn't tip me to the fact he'd probably already, by this time, recorded his own chat with Maron. So it was a surprise to me when I learned this week that he'd be on.

If you're stumbling onto this blog because you've just learned of Kliph, he's been a guest on What's So Funny? five times, dating back to 2004. The last time, recorded in January, was a 90-minute affair. Since I've yet to hear the WTF one, I don't know if he told any of the same stories, but he told some pretty great ones. You might want to check it out. (And if you're new to this show, I've also had Maron on twice.)

Here's the latest Nesteroff episode of WSF? And to hear him with Maron, follow this link.

This week in press releases - WTF box set

Regular readers of this space, and listeners of What's So Funny?, will know I'm a huge fan of WTF with Marc Maron. Haven't missed an episode. But if you're a johnny-come-lately, you won't have heard the first 100 episodes because they're not available. Until now. Read on. (And in related news, the full catalogue of almost 300 What's So Funny? episodes remains available -- and free! -- at comedycouch.com and on iTunes. We're not about the money.) 

MARC MARON TO RELEASE WTF BOX SET ON ASPECIALTHING RECORDS

INCLUDES OVER 100 HOURS OF INTERVIEWS + VIDEO OF WTF LIVE

ON SALE APRIL 24, PRE-SALE STARTS TUESDAY APRIL 17

  

      

  

Legendary comedian and heralded podcaster MARC MARON announces the release of the ‘WTF WITH MARC MARON’ box set.  The two-disc set, packaged in die-cut  limited edition release of 1,000 copies, includes the first 100 episodes of Maron’s phenomenal podcast which has been called “Required Listening” by the likes of New York Magazine, New York Times,  Huffington Post, Vanity Fair, and GQ, and “A fascinating hour” by Entertainment Weekly.  With over 100 hours of content, the WTF box set features Maron’s compelling, in-depth interviews with Ben Stiller, Robin Williams, Zach Galifianakis, Dane Cook, Sarah Silverman, Patton Oswalt and the now-infamous two-part interview with Carlos Mencia, plus many more classic WTFs featuring the top entertainers working today.

 

In addition to audio files of the first 100 WTF episodes, the ‘WTF With Marc Maron’ box set includes video of WTF Live taped at The Bell House in Brooklyn (WTF Episode 213).  The live show features Maron with an all-star guest line up which includes Artie Lange, Morgan Spurlock, Ira Glass, Elna Baker, Nick DiPaolo, Nick Griffin, Joe Mande, and Wayne Koestenbaum onstage in Fall 2011.

 

The two disc ‘WTF With Marc Maron’ collector’s set will be available April 24 in limited edition from aspecialthing Records. Pre-sales begin Tuesday, April 17.  Order online at www.astrecords.com/wtf

“His greatest achievement yet” - Rolling Stone

“No comic does podcasting better” – New York Times Magazine

 

“[WTF with Marc Maron’s] jaw-dropping conversations are an intoxicating blend of personal disclosure, confrontation and true empathy.” – Salon.com

 

“At this point if you're a fan of comedy and haven't tuned into Marc Maron's deliriously addictive WTF podcast it's time to seriously question your life choices”– LA Times

 

“Comedian Marc Maron is a very funny man who talks to very funny people. His WTF podcast is where comedians go to talk about what they do — and often tell him things you can't believe they're telling anyone.” – NPR

 

 

Info on Marc Maron, WTF, live shows and more at:  http://www.wtfpod.com/

 

 

ASPECIALTHING RECORDS is a Los Angeles-based independent comedy record label owned and operated by Matt Belknap and Ryan McManemin. Stemming from an online message board, aspecialthing records has taken a D.I.Y. approach to producing and distributing the finest stand-up comedy albums since 2006. Having already worked with such celebrated artists as Paul F. Tompkins, Doug Benson, Kyle Kinane, Greg Proops and Jen Kirkman, AST is looking forward to expanding their catalog while continuing their dedication to exceptional emerging and established comics.

 

Marc Maron interview (2012)

Marc Maron – January 29, 2012

 "I’m still fundamentally self-involved. I think what I have now is I feel like I have my place in the community. I don’t feel like I’m banging my head against the wall or desperate in any way or angry at my place in the world. So I think if anything I move through the world with a little more grace and a little more confidence." – Marc Maron

Guy MacPherson: How are you?

Marc Maron: Uh… I’m all right. I overslept a little and I’m doing shit. Every day’s fucking busy. Been running around a lot. How you doing?

GM: I’m great. I can imagine how busy you are. And you’ve got a real team around you now, too. It used to be I would just call you up. Now I’ve got to go through channels!

MM: Well, I mean, the benefit is… I’ve never been a guy that really understood why people need channels. I mean, you could have just emailed me but it really just comes down to [the fact that] I’m unable to contain my schedule. Like, I’m unable to deal with anything other than on a day-to-day basis without getting completely overwhelmed. So the filter is really just about, you know, how do I schedule shit? I just can’t do that basic thing for myself anymore.

GM: I totally understand because I have a fraction of what you have and my wife needs to tell me what I have coming up because I never seem to remember.

MM: Yeah, it’s horrendous. It’s like I want to do as much as I can and talk to people – certainly you – but I can’t look at my schedule anymore or I’d never be able to get out of bed.

GM: I did email you and it went directly to your publicist.

MM: Yeah, I just sent it over to her and told her this guy, I like him and we’ve talked before.

GM: I put in a little dig at publicists.

MM: Oh, yeah, she definitely registered that, which I thought was funny.

GM: You told me once years ago before all this happened to you that you were a little too available, to fans and to anybody. Is that still the case?

MM: I don’t really know, you know? One thing I’m starting to realize is that I’m doing it the way I do it in the sense that I don’t know what other people do. I try to be as present as possible. I’m doing bigger shows now. I’m doing meet-and-greets. I basically sell my own merch and sign things and take pictures. I try to respond to emails especially if people have a certain amount of need to connect and it’s something I can handle. I have to filter emails from, like, ‘Hey, great show, buddy. I just really enjoy it. Keep it up.’ And then people who are like, ‘I’m having this problem and I don’t know how you got sober.’ Or ‘I really want to try to do stand-up.’ Stuff that I can handle that people seem to be struggling with. I don’t go too in depth. I don’t build up too big a rapport but I try to at least say this is what I did or try this or that. Just an acknowledgement thing. With sobriety I generally try to be a little more proactive because that’s part of being somebody in recovery or staying sober: you’re there for people who are trying to do that, steer them in the right direction. Without it getting too personal, you can sort of give them some advice. So if it’s stand-up advice or advice around needing help with that, I try to get back to people. It gets a little tricky because my show is so open and I’m fairly transparent and I deal with day-to-day stuff and with my own struggles that people do have a fairly intimate relationship with me. It’s just one-sided. So I try and be as gracious as possible. And these people who enjoy me and who know me in a real way, to have that one moment with you where you’re meeting them after a show and they’re like, “He was a fucking dick”; I don’t think I’m a dick. I do think sometimes I’m a little overwhelmed. But I try to [be available], I think is the point but it becomes difficult because there’s only so much of me to go around.

GM: You have a little more understanding of people with fame now that you have a level of it yourself more than you’ve had in the past. Sometimes we get an impression of a celebrity but I’ve always thought it’s more the perception that has changed rather than the actual person who becomes a celebrity.

MM: That might be true. To some degree. There’s a part of all of us that you sort of hit a wall with. I think that moment where you’re like, ‘How do they expect me to deal with this? Don’t they know I’m overwhelmed with stuff? I’m overwhelmed with expectation or people who want to connect.’ You gotta battle with the fact that no, they don’t know that. When somebody sends you an email they’re not thinking necessarily that you get a million emails; they’re just sending you an email. Or they’re wanting to have that moment. You don’t want to get frustrated because they’re not necessarily aware of that.

GM: You talk on the show about being a changed man now. You’re a more generous colleague to your fellow comics, not so fuelled by jealousy. Is that maturity or is it a result of your success and the respect you now get?

MM: I think it’s a mixture of both. I think when you struggle for a long time and you’re not getting results that on a day-to-day basis you feel like you’re failing and it’s hard to have pride without it being bitter. I think what you’re holding onto, and anyone who pursues something and it’s not working out or they’re not getting the attention they think their work deserves, your pride becomes angry. And then it becomes more about ‘where the fuck is mine? How come fucking people don’t get me’ or whatever. I think most people, once they get mature realize their limitations and have a certain pride and ownership in who they are and what they’re doing. I think that’s part of maturity. I don’t think that it necessarily happens to everybody. I’m not saying that all grown-ups are mature. But I think the fact that I feel comfortable with myself and I feel appreciated definitely has helped that. But believe me, it’s still there; it’s just not driving my sense of self. As soon as I feel good about something and somebody says something good about someone else, I’m still like, “Oh shit, can’t I have one second where I feel like I’ve made it somewhere?” That’s still in my own head, you know? But it’s gotten better because I feel comfortable. I feel present. I feel seen. I feel validated. I feel finally that 25 years and change of work is now sort of coming together in a weird way, in a unique way. My stand-up really has never been better, I feel better on stage, I don’t have any real fear. And to be honest, man, to spend your life wanting to do a theatre, wanting to be able to sell a thousand tickets and not really knowing at different points of your career whether you can handle that, I mean that’s the weirdest thing about it, Guy, is that I couldn’t have handled what’s going on right now ten years ago. There’s just no way. With the amount of self-consciousness and self-abuse that I was going through and the amount of fear I was dealing with, there was no way I could have showed up for what’s going on right now at another point in my career. I did the shows in Boston. I don’t have time to be afraid anymore. And I’m not really afraid of being on stage and I know that my comedy’s in a good place and I’m in a good place so I can walk on stage in front of a thousand people and do an hour or an hour-plus and actually be thrilled about it. I don’t think I’ve ever experienced… These are people that are coming to see me or coming to see the What the Fuck show because they want to see see those things. And it’s pretty thrilling to be able to perform for a bunch of people that want to see you. And not go out and do a room where more than half the people have no fucking idea who you are. That’s the big reward.

GM: But you still like performing to those that don’t know you, right?

MM: I think that’s the job of comedians but I’m just saying that the perk of it now is that I never thought I would have a small theatre of people who wanted to see me. It didn’t feel like it was going to happen. I just started to believe that was too weird or too different and that it was always going to be like just a percentage. I like the challenge of it. It’s a great feeling when someone comes up to you, like it happened in Salt Lake City, some older guy with his wife, a guy I would never assume, if I looked at him, would ever get me. He said, “That was the best show I’ve ever seen. I never heard of you before coming here.” I mean, that’s tremendous. To me, that’s the real job of doing stand-up on some level. But having the support has also enabled me to take new chances, to open my heart a little more, go new places with the comedy. It’s an amazing thing. And it’s a pretty tremendous feeling. But I do think things happen when they’re supposed to happen, without being too spiritual about it. And I don’t know that it’s necessarily some sort of synchronicity thing but there must have been a reason why this didn’t happen before: because I didn’t have it in me; I didn’t have the feeling necessary or the craft in place or I was consumed with some sort of paralyzing fear that mutated my ability.

GM: If this success and respect had come in your 20s you think you would have just spiraled out of control with drugs, moreso than you did?

MM: No, no. I think I would have fucked it up. You know, I still fear fucking it up. I had opportunities in my 20s. And when I look back at them, I was fuelled by a certain spite. I had big enough management and I was a unique comic voice for a pretty long time but I was more than willing to let people think… Most of the time people in the business, they don’t have any fucking idea about anything. You’ve got to show up with what you do and they’ve got to see it sitting in somewhere. So I think for a long time I had a certain anger, I was neurotic, edgy, whatever the fuck you want to call it, but they would try to package me in their head. They’d be like, “Oh, you’re the angry guy” or “You’re the neurotic guy” or “You’re the political guy.” You’re this guy, you’re that guy. And you just sort of roll with that. You’re like, “Okay, that seems good.” But I always knew it was limiting. Even seeing me do five minutes of stand-up on TV, that’s not really necessarily a great indicator of what I do. So now with the podcast being the sort of bedrock which I’m pulling from, people that know me from that podcast, they know me. They know the full range of what I’m doing. I was never able to be sort of a caricature of myself, which is really what makes you a more efficient product, show business-wise. So when I got opportunities in the past, there was part of me that was always like, “Well, this isn’t really what I do. I need to do more.” And there was also a time where I really couldn’t see myself as a refillable vessel, as somebody that people could write jokes for, because I had such a defined point of view. I mean, I’m pretty good at delivering jokes if somebody writes them for me – I’ve had that opportunity on television before – but how do I really represent myself? I could never figure that out. And it just turns out in the last quarter of my career here, or whatever it is, I’ve created something on my own that really embraces my full personality.

GM: You’ve got to be so proud of the show. But how much of that is tied its reception. That is, if you were doing this same show but banging your head against the wall trying to get listeners, would you be as proud of the product as you must be now?

MM: No. I mean, look, I’m the first guy to say that I was poorly parented by selfish people and that there’s part of me that was always seeking some sort of “you’re doing good.” It’s hard for me to give that to myself unless it’s supported by hundreds of strangers. I mean, I am a comedian. So I would say if you want to set up that scenario where I’m doing this same show and nobody’s listening to it, no, I’d be fucking miserable and it would probably be a different show.

GM: I mean if you had, say, thousands of listeners instead of the 250,000 you’re getting each episode.

MM: Some of them are getting 300-plus-thousand. We just had a bump in the numbers for some reason where it’s getting up around 700,000 downloads a week across the catalogue… Uh, you know, it’s weird, man. Like, I’m happy about it but I don’t think I really on a day-to-day basis think about the scope of that. I mean, because the weird thing about doing a show like this is that I’m not reading ratings, I’m not in that competition. I’m still a guy sitting in his house and when I go to work I’m going out the back. That’s what I’m doing. And part of that, because it’s such a unique medium and no one really knows where it’s going, I mean, I can see the number of listeners and stuff, but it’s very weird when you’re running your own business in show business that me and my partner have had to figure out how to make this lucrative in a way so we can earn some money, because we’re putting a lot of work into this, and you’re becoming a small business person on top of doing the comedy and everything else. That’s been a unique thing. But I think, to answer your question, I’m thrilled at the success of the thing but I don’t think on a day-to-day basis I fully really realize the success until I go out and do two nearly sold-out shows in Boston or somebody recognizes me at an airport by hearing my voice, by overhearing me on the phone, or I have people recognize me on the street now from my podcast, not from television. That’s pretty profound, the familiarity people have with the show. When I go out and say that’s my show people go, “Oh, my God, I love that show. You’re that guy!” It’s pretty amazing. But I don’t know that I would have persisted.

GM: But it’s far exceeded your expectations.

MM: I didn’t have any. I was desperate. Look, when it comes right down to it, after the divorce and after all that other bullshit, I was sort of lost. My management had sort of hung me out to dry and I wasn’t selling tickets. I was just desperate. I had no expectations, no plan. I really didn’t, man. I’m just fucking glad it worked out. I just really had no fucking idea. We didn’t know what the show was going to be, really. I wasn’t doing it to get people. I didn’t know the power of podcasting. All I knew was that I was good at radio and it was a natural medium for me and that these other guys were doing them, like Pardo and Carolla and Smith, and I’m like, “Well, let’s try it.” I felt like wouldn’t it be great if I got a radio show. That’s a horrible place to be after doing the type of comedy I did for as long as I did it and then all of a sudden I’m like ‘it would be nice if I got a daily radio gig.’ I mean, radio’s just a wasteland. But I always thought like, well, I’m getting old. You don’t have to look good; you just have to be able to own that mic. Maybe this is the way I can just put myself out to pasture, is to find some sort of radio nook in the culture somewhere and do that. But you know, if you have to hang your hopes up on something like that it’s horrendous. Yeah, so it’s all a big surprise and I’m fucking thankful that it went the way it did. I can’t picture the other way because it didn’t happen. It’s just a sad image.

GM: As someone who’s been there from the beginning and heard every show in order, I think it’s a shame when listeners cherry-pick episodes based on who they like or the big names because I take away as much from the guests I’ve never heard of or guests I didn’t like before. You talk about the numbers, do you become a slave to them in the sense of booking guests and who might draw the biggest numbers?

MM: No, no, no. I don’t look at those numbers. It’s weird, I tend to sort of obsess about my iTunes ranking, which is an algorithm, which is meaningless, really; it doesn’t represent anything. I don’t ever look at the download numbers. I’ll ask my partner how an episode did and generally he’ll say, “Yeah, it’s doing what they do.” And some do more than others. But no, I never judge on that.  I’m the same as you – I get just as much, if not more sometimes, out of people that people don’t know. And I’ve still got a lot in the can. I’m not icing people. If I don’t put someone on – because a lot of people want to go on – so if I don’t put someone on it’s really because I really don’t know that guy and I’m not necessarily sure that I would have a lot to talk to them about for an hour, you know? Or there’s an occasional case where, you know, that guy’s never been anything but an asshole to me and I’m not sure I want to be a friend. That happened. But usually I don’t judge them on what I think are going to be big numbers. I’m thrilled when we get somebody that will be big numbers but I’m not pursuing people for that reason at all. I never have.

 "I’m completely vulnerable to being a fan and having that moment, thinking that they’re different. Ever since I was a little kid it’s always hard for me to separate when I develop a relationship with a character or an actor or something from afar, it’s hard for me. And I’m not ashamed of that. I’m glad I let that out." – Marc Maron

GM: It seems you get a little more jazzed for the big names, though. Is it a different mental preparation?

MM: It makes me a little more nervous because they’ve got more of a plan. They’re used to being public personalities. In my mind it’s harder to have a regular conversation. I get excited with comedy heroes. I’d never met Steven Wright, really. I’d never talked to him. I didn’t know he could have a conversation. I was thrilled about that. Or Richard Lewis. I mean, I don’t think I get excited about people because of what you were saying, because they’re going to bring in a lot of numbers. I’m excited when I get somebody that I think will. Like today we’re going to put Jimmy Kimmel up and I’m supposed to do his show today. So that’s exciting to be on a TV show where a guy owns this thing and I’m on it today. And I’m curious to see how that pans out. And I’m certainly excited when I get somebody who’s got maybe 4 million Twitter followers, what that episode does. But generally I’m thrilled to talk to big comedians and certainly people that I respect. You know, Richard Lewis, Zach, Jonathan Winters, Robin Williams, Steven Wright. Even Russell Brand, who I didn’t know. Well, I didn’t know his comedy at all. This fluke-ish opportunity came up for me to talk to him. And I really didn’t know anything about him and I went and saw his show the night before I interviewed him. And I think a lot of people think poorly of him. But I tell you, I had a great time talking to him. The banter sometimes was like, ‘Wow, we’re really riffing.’ He’s a riff guy. I don’t know ultimately how deep I got with him; he seems pretty adept at talking about himself in a very personal way about fairly dark things. He’s equipped to do it. He knows how to do it. It’s something he does. But I have a slightly, maybe, co-dependent interaction with people. I think it’s from having a fairly unpredictable, explosive father to where you’re sort of ready to emotionally interlock with people with big personalities. And sometimes when that happens you just sort of feed the momentum. It’s kind of fun. And I had that with Russell. I thought it was kind of fun.

GM: Yeah, it was a great one. I had the exact same impression of Russell Brand. I’d seen him on talk shows, didn’t like him, didn’t like the look. Saw him in a couple movies. Then I went to see him live a few months ago and he really impressed me with his intelligence. He’s just a funny guy. And I loved the episode you had with him.

MM: Yeah, it was good times. I had no idea what to do. He’s got an almost dangerous charisma. It’s kind of interesting. He’s a boundary-pusher on a personal level. When you talk to him, his charm and his intelligence is kind of menacing and I think he knows that. He digs that. So you just kinda got to stay in the saddle with that and not get run over by it.

GM: Well, you’re kind of a boundary-pusher in a personal way, too.

MM: No, no, I know, that’s why it was exciting. It’s like we were having some sort of weird, exciting joust of some sort.

GM: When you have actors on like the Breaking Bad guy or Jon Hamm, it seems a little incongruous that a guy like you, in show business for so long, would be star struck. And especially with your disposition.

MM: Yeah, but that’s definitely part of me. And it’s a real part of me. I’m completely vulnerable to being a fan and having that moment, thinking that they’re different. Ever since I was a little kid it’s always hard for me to separate when I develop a relationship with a character or an actor or something from afar, it’s hard for me. And I’m not ashamed of that. I’m glad I let that out. Because that’s part of why I like it. As much as I’m bitter about – or was bitter about – my own place in show business, I love movies, I love comedians, and I love being taken away by movies and characters and comics. I realized it the other day when I was on the plane watching a movie. It wasn’t even that great a movie but I was just so thrilled to be taken away by a performance by Steve Carell or Ryan Gosling or any of these people. I know they’re just people but there’s part of me that doesn’t want to believe that.

GM: It’s interesting because stand-ups, to me, are way more worthy of respect than actors, who just read other writers’ lines and attach some fake emotion to them. But you seem to afford more respect to the actors.

MM: Well, I think I am a comic. I understand comics. I don’t know if that’s true. It’s not respect; it’s awe. It’s just awe. I don’t know that respect is the right word because ultimately what happens is I get let down. There’s no way to win that. With comics, I’m never let down. But when I finally realize that actors are just people, I’m like, “Ugh, God.” And sometimes they’re not the most deep people. It’s usually better if they’re not. To be a good actor, to inhabit a role, it’s better if you’re not bringing a lot of intellectual baggage to it. But I think it’s not a disappointment I experience but there is something. When I talk to Jon Hamm or when I talk to Bryan Cranston, and those are two characters that they play that I definitely have a relationship with and I enjoy watching, but you have to deal with the mild disappointment as you adjust to them as people. You know what I mean? I think I would go more with fanboy than respect because I don’t think I respect actors more than comedians. I do know comedians and I think that we’re kindred spirits but I do tend to put actors on a pedestal. But as I talk to them I have to learn my lesson that I’m not talking to Walter White, I’m not talking to Don Draper. And I think I address that in those conversations.

GM: I think I figured it out. When you said to Steven Wright that you’d seen him all these years and you kinda thought that’s who he was, and when you see the actors and think they’re the characters, it’s because you’re such an honest performer yourself – there’s a bit of difference between you onstage and off, but essentially that’s you – so maybe you project that onto others.

MM: Yeah, maybe. I don’t know. That’s an interesting question. I’m surprised at how much of a… Like, I just had this fucking feeling on the plane when I was flying back from Boston and I watched that Crazy Love movie, which has a pretty ridiculous ending but I was very invested in the fantasy of it, in the guy who got divorced and all that bullshit. There’s still part of me, even moreso now, I’m less critical… I can say something’s a bad movie, but I like being taken out of my reality and living in the reality of a good movie or even a mediocre movie or a television show. I have to cop to that at some point. I’m so up in my head and so living with my own emotions, if somebody can take me out of that, I think on some level I have a tremendous amount of gratitude. (laughs)

GM: You talk about listeners having never heard you do stand-up. They come to see you only having listened to your show. And you define yourself as a stand-up; you’ve been a stand-up for your whole life. Have you thought about the possibility that when it’s all over, you’ll be remembered first as an interviewer, a type of journalist, and second as a stand-up?

MM: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I’ve had to think about that. And, you know, I gotta live with that. It doesn’t always go the way you think it’s going to go, you know? But I know I’m doing good stand-up right now. And I know that either way, I think I’ve done something with interviews in a public forum that is unique. I see people trying to copy it and I think it’s uniquely mine. I’m happy to have been part of this sort of  nascent surge of podcasts and seemed to have defined a little corner of podcasting in a way. I gotta be proud of that. It’s not a bad thing, but it’s an odd thing. Like, I do have that moment with people when they go, “I love your podcast” and I’m like, “Well, did you like the stand-up?” I do have that feeling, but I don’t say that. Look, it is me and those conversations couldn’t exist without me. It’s just a surprise turn of events that it is what I’ve become, what’s been the most significant accomplishment. It’s not that it bothers me… well, maybe it does a little, but what are you going to do, you know? It’s like I’m doing something that’s uniquely mine and it involves other people. That’s not so hard. I can live with that.

GM: You say people have tried to copy you. I haven’t heard anyone, or if I have they’ve done such a poor job at it that I haven’t registered it.

MM: Yeah, that might just be in my mind. Certainly I didn’t invent two people talking. I am me and I make that a prominent part of my interviews. I’m not that concerned about it. It’s an on-going lesson in keeping your mouth shut about what I perceive as this or that. Because I’m still paranoid, I’m still weirdly competitive in some ways, and self-involved. The hardest thing for me, and the biggest difference between now and whatever I was when I was younger is that there’s some things you don’t need to say. Things are okay. My insecurity does not have to have a voice in some situations.

GM: I’ve been doing my show since 2004 and I like to joke on it that you stole my essence.

MM: Oh good.

GM: But I can’t even approach what you do because I don’t bring myself into it like you do. And that’s the difference. And that right there in a nutshell is what you do, in a really positive way. It’s amazing how people open up to you. Now it must be that your guests know what to expect. Do you feel you’re getting more well-prepared opening-ups?

MM: I think there’s a bit of that, depending on who it is. But I think that what’s evolving is that there’s a comfort level to it – if it’s going to go there that they can do it. Some people are sort of like, “This is the story I’m going to tell about me; this is like a WTF type of thing.” I think that happens a bit but I’m starting to think that when you sit down for an hour and have a one-on-one conversation that no matter what you expect or what you think’s going to happen, something different will happen. It’s just sort of allowing yourself to have the conversation. I think I created a comfortable environment for people to do that.

GM: You’re the real life Dr. Katz.

MM: Yeah, kind of. I don’t know how therapeutic [it is]or how skilled I am. An hour of direct, connected conversation, authentic conversation is a risky but very nourishing thing for the human heart. I just think that the therapy model, which gets kicked around a lot, that seems more like a practition, more what someone does because they’ve got problems. I think people underestimate the power and significance of just connected conversation. You live in a world where you’re isolated by technology, by your career path, by your fears and that’s a real loneliness that you have among other people. And just the fact of talking to somebody for even twenty minutes, it does something to the heart. And to witness that, to be part of that, I mean, this is what people are supposed to be doing. This is how we see ourselves outside of ourselves is by empathetic listening or being present for somebody else’s conversation or feeling. That’s what human beings are supposed to be; that’s what makes us interesting and good and gives us hope. And I think that has diminished in our culture to such a degree that it’s troubling. So I think a lot of times it’s not really about asking questions, it’s about having an authentic conversation. It really helps me. If I go for a couple weeks without having an interview, I’m jonesing. I need to get out of myself, I need to hear somebody else’s problems.

GM: Have you learned anything in general about entertainers (mostly comics)? Everyone’s an individual, but you hear a lot about the damaged psyche of comics, but I tend to think that’s a lot of hyperbole. Is there any truth to it?

MM: I think you’re right. I think the idea that the comic is fucked up is at least 50-50, but it’s not untrue. But it’s not true in all cases. The one thing I’ve learned, and sort of resonates, is that the ego of the performer is a delicate thing and that when you have conversations with performers you sort of get a sense of the design of that ego with each individual. And the only thing I’ve learned is that if you see the weak spot, if you see the vulnerable window, if you see that chink in that armour and you sense it – and it’s not hard to sense after you talk to somebody for a little while – you better be careful about going around there. And if you’re going to do it, be respectful and be sensitive to what you’re doing.

GM: And empathetic.

MM: Right.

GM: You’ve talked about not having a lot of friends. I imagine now people treat you a little differently, your colleagues as well as others. Do you have more friends now?

MM: I say that because I’m still fundamentally self-involved. I think what I have now is I feel like I have my place in the community. I don’t feel like I’m banging my head against the wall or desperate in any way or angry at my place in the world. So I think if anything I move through the world with a little more grace and a little more confidence. So I think I’m probably a little funner to be around. I still wish I had some more friends. But it’s hard to find time. I still really consider a lot of times even when I don’t know somebody that well and they come over to talk to me for the podcast that, like, my friend’s coming over. There’s definitely that feeling. I assume a relationship with a lot of the people I interview that they don’t know about. I think a lot of people do that with me, too. I really assume that I know people and most of the time I don’t. It’s pretty spectacular!

GM: Todd Glass came out on your show recently. I had a guest on my show last night who’s a gay comic and we talked a bit about it. He had met Todd before, been in the same car with him, talked to him and he said he had no clue and said usually has good gaydar so much that he knows when someone’s gay even before they know it. But he had no idea about Todd Glass. Was this news to you on the show?

MM: Oh, no, he told me ahead of time. We had to work up to that. He had decided that he had wanted to do it and he wanted to do it on my show but there were a few months there of “I gotta get a few ducks in a row, I gotta make sure my partner’s cool with it, we’ve got to go discuss this externally to make sure we can handle it, and I want to do it but I want to make sure I’m in the right place.” There was a bit of lead-up. My position was when he called me saying he wanted to do that on my show, I was like, I’m flattered and I’m honoured that you want to do that and whenever you’re ready we’ll do it. And I was nervous. There was a lot of energy around this thing and a lot of burying emotion and I just wanted to make sure I handled it appropriately. I was a little nervous. Then I remembered it’s Todd so it’s going to be a whirlwind so just kinda strap in and be respectful and feel him out and try to keep some focus. So yeah, I knew, but I didn’t know before he told me.

GM: You think it’ll affect his stand-up?

MM: Absolutely.

GM: I mean in a positive way?

MM: I think he can walk through the world a whole person. You know how much energy goes into being closeted that long and to have a system of hiding that. That becomes your instinct, to hide something. That’s second nature. I mean, we all do it to some degree but to do it on that big a level, the amount of maintenance and energy that goes into that, and fear, it’s like you’re half a person. So whether or not he talks about it or not on stage, it doesn’t matter. He can now walk through the world a whole person. So that’s going to change your disposition. Fundamentally, publically, he’s a new person. He doesn’t have to address it at all. He doesn’t have to hide it.

GM: He probably will have to at least mention it in passing, anyway.

MM: I’d imagine. And I think it would be amazing if he were to address it specifically in the way that he handled it and who he is, I think, somebody who doesn’t culturally identify publically as gay and everything that comes along with that to talk about it like, “I’m just a guy and I just like guys. That’s it!” To do it like Todd Glass does it would be profoundly powerful and unique. I don’t know if he will choose to do that. That’s up to him.

GM: Prior to that announcement, he was probably thought to be in the truth-telling mold, an open, honest comic as opposed to a Steven Wright-type whose jokes, as he says, are his wall to hide behind so we don’t get to know him. So we probably thought we knew Todd Glass pretty well.

MM: I don’t know if that’s true. Do you really think that’s true? I think that Todd Glass is a guy that is just insanely funny and all his energy and all his mania was really just sort of like, “I’m funny now! This is going to be funny! We’re doing this now!” I think he’s really like that but I definitely think he was more known for being uniquely and persistently funny in almost a super-hero kind of way. He’s definitely a comic’s comic and everybody loves him, but the truth that he was not on everybody’s radar and he is as funny as he is means that something was not quite hooked up and hopefully that’ll hook up now.

 "I think the problem with being too honest or too raw is that you don’t really have control over that monster. And it’s a very exciting thing to watch once or twice but as I’ve said before, you don’t see any blurbs on posters for stand-up shows that say, 'Draining! Two stars!'" – Marc Maron

GM: I’ve kept you on the phone long enough, but first I asked my tens of Twitter followers if they had any questions for you, and I got some. So if you don’t mind… This one says, “When does he think he’ll be okay? Does he have to do the podcast for another twenty years? When’s retirement?”

MM: (laughs) Look, I don’t really know. I like doing the podcast, I’d like to see it grow. I do have moments where I feel like I’ve run out of life to talk about, but I don’t know that that ever happens. I would like to see if I can make something happen in another medium before I die. There are certain opportunities that have eluded me. I’ve never been on television or in movies in any real way, and that was sort of part of the dream. So I don’t have any plans on retiring. I don’t really know if I’ll ever be okay. I’m better than I was only because I’m more of myself. But, you know, trouble persists.

GM: Next one: “How did the food gifts from fans start?”

MM: It started a long time ago. When I was on Air America there was a woman in Portland, Oregon, who started baking things for us. And we talked about it on the air. So I think it goes back to Air America. There were a couple of fans who did some baking and then I talked about it and it just became a thing.

GM: “What kind of car does he drive? Also, does Jessica want to get married to him?”

MM: I know that Jessica wants a baby. Marriage, we don’t talk about that much but I hear the baby thing. The car I have is a 2006 Camry that could use a little body work.

GM: I don’t know why they asked that. “I’d like to know if he thinks it’s possible to be too honest on stage. Are there some things an audience isn’t ready to hear?”

MM: Yes. Yeah, because when honesty is raw a lot of times the laugh you get is nervous laughter. But when you get a little distance from it or you kind of mould it a little bit so it’s not nervous laughter but it’s a laughter of identification. I’ve done both. And I still do both. Sometimes you can be honest and it’s not inherently funny other than people can’t fucking believe you’re talking about it. To make it truly funny in a repeatable way, you can’t be living in the rawness as immediate. When I was doing the one-man show about my divorce I was workshopping it in New York and it was not really meant for public consumption in the press but Time-Out New York had seen it and they said, “What’s great about this show is Maron has no hindsight and you feel like he’s working through the problems right in front of you.” Yeah, well that’s great, I’m glad he had that experience but that doesn’t mean that it’s a repeatable experience, you know what I mean? You don’t want your act to hinge on the fact that you’re completely emotionally devastated and out of control. At some point you’d like to be able to do that material with a certain amount of distance but still have the same impact. I think the problem with being too honest or too raw is that you don’t really have control over that monster. And it’s a very exciting thing to watch once or twice but as I’ve said before, you don’t see any blurbs on posters for stand-up shows that say, “Draining! Two stars!” Certainly there is, but I think it’s important to put it out there in that form if for any other reason to begin moulding it into something that you can depend on and have some safety in as a performance piece.

GM: “Does Maron ever play guitar on any of those WTF musical bumpers?”

MM: No. I should. I’m going to San Francisco this weekend and Behrendt’s having me on his Bring the Rock show again so I’m going to sing in public again and play. Yeah, I should make some bumpers. I don’t know why I don’t. I’ve got too much going on and I don’t know how to use GarageBand in that way.

GM: You’re doing a book, too.

MM: Argh, fuck. Yeah, okay, I gotta… You know, I’ve got a good chunk of it done. It’s a lot of original essays and there are a lot of speeches that I’ve pulled from monologues. That’s the thing about it, everyone knows about everything. But there are some things that they don’t. And I’m still trying to organize that. I’ve got another month and a half to dump a big stack of shit on my editor’s desk and let him start to hammer away at it.

GM: When’s it expected out?

MM: The first draft is due March 15. Expected out? Who the fuck knows? Then there’s another nine months turnaround, I think.

GM: Alright. I look forward to seeing you again.

MM: Yeah, it’s great. We’ll hang out, get something to eat.

Live WTF taping

I personally know a few people who've lamented the fact that the live WTF with Marc Maron taping sold out in 4 minutes. Well, said people, good news: ComedyFest Vancouver has changed the venue from the Tom Lee Music Hall to the Rio Theatre, which holds approximately twice the people. I have no idea of the current status, as the following press release came out yesterday and maybe it's sold out again already, but at least you can give it a try again.

On a related note, I'll be interviewing Maron for the fifth time on Monday. Needless to say, I've asked him lots of questions already over the years. It seems I always have a dozen thoughts each and every episode of WTF so I'm sure I'll have more than enough new questions for him. But if there's something you've been dying to ask him, leave a comment below and I promise I'll ask.

Now, onto the ComedyFest press release:

January 25, 2012

For immediate release:


A LIVE PODCAST TAPING OF
WTF with MARC MARON
MOVES TO THE RIO THEATRE
FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 2012
Doors:  6:00pm                  Show:  7:00pm

Vancouver, BC ~ Due to overwhelming ticket demand, Vancouver ComedyFest is pleased to announce a change of venue for "WTF with Marc Maron".  Originally scheduled for the Tom Lee Music Hall, this live podcast taping, with special guests Bob Odenkirk and David Cross, will now take place at The Rio Theatre.

Tickets are $27.50 (plus applicable fees and service charges) and are available online at www.comedyfest.com.

For over fifteen years, Marc Maron has been writing and performing raw, honest and thought-provoking comedy for print, stage, radio and television.  A legend in the stand-up community, he has appeared on HBO, Conan, Letterman, Craig Ferguson, Real Time, The Green Room and two Comedy Central Presents specials.

His podcast “WTF with Marc Maron” has featured in-depth interviews with such comedy icons as Conan O’Brien, Louis CK, Robin Williams, Judd Apatow and Ben Stiller, to name a few.  The show frequently hits #1 on the iTunes comedy charts, brags over 20 million downloads to date and has been called a “must listen” by Vanity Fair and The New York Times.

Don’t miss the live podcast taping of WTF with Marc Maron, with special guests Bob Odenkirk and David Cross, at The Rio Theatre on Friday, February 24, 2012 at 7:00pm.

For more information, please visit www.comedyfest.com.

ABOUT VANCOUVER COMEDYFEST:
For eight years the Vancouver ComedyFest has taken advantage of our city’s perfect backdrop to experience some of the best comedians from around the globe.  We have grown to become a prime destination for talent within the international comedy circuit and have had the incredible opportunity to host personalities like Carol Burnett, Steve Martin, Jay Leno and Zach Galifianakis, to name just a few.  The Vancouver ComedyFest, directed by Will Davis, works diligently to support up-and-coming talent from across Canada and to create a unique west coast festival that represents us here on the water’s edge.  Join us February 15 - 25 for the best of the best in 2012.  www.comedyfest.com

Sam's secret

This little WSF? snippet goes back to 2009 when I interviewed Marc Maron in his hotel room (using his WTF equipment). He told a secret about his old mentor Sam Kinison he'd never mentioned publicly anywhere else to that point (I haven't heard it anywhere else but I don't listen to everything so who knows?). It's not a mind-blowing secret, but it is a somewhat surprising glimpse into the genesis of Kinison's iconic primal scream.

Marc Maron interview

Marc Maron – August 28, 2010

“I’m a fairly isolated guy, I don’t have a lot of close friends. If given a choice, I’ll sit around by myself moreso than not, even though I like talking to people. So in a way this show really forces me to have relationships and to talk to people that are my peers.” – Marc Maron

Marc Maron: So, what’s on your mind, Guy?

Guy MacPherson: Well, you’re on my mind, Marc. You’re coming back to Vancouver doing comedy and a podcast.
MM: That’s the plan.

GM: Congratulations on 100 episodes, by the way.
MM: Thank you so much.

GM: I need some background. When did you start this?
MM: I guess it’s almost a year ago. I think we started it in September of last year.

GM: Did you anticipate it would take on a life of its own like it has?
MM: I did not anticipate any of this.

GM: What were you thinking?
MM: I was thinking like, well, we’ll do this, we’ll get a few hundred people, maybe a few of my older fans, some of my radio fans, and I thought maybe if we get a thousand people, twelve hundred people, we’d be doing great.

GM: And now I read something where it’s, how many downloads a week is it?
MM: I think it’s like a couple hundred thousand a week.

GM: Yeah, that’s amazing. Did you have a template or something you modelled it after because it’s unlike the other comedy podcasts that are out there.
MM: I don’t know what’s out there. I mean, I know the names of them but I don’t... I mean, I’ve listened to Jimmy Pardo’s... I’ve listened to a couple here and there. But no, I didn’t have a template other than I would talk, then I would talk to somebody I knew, have a real conversation, and then maybe do a third act that was sort of a Kaufmanesque and Wellesian in its way of fucking with the audience’s head as to whether or not it’s real or not. That was the only template we had. And it seems like those third acts are getting fewer and fewer.

GM: That’s key: You said you wanted real conversation. That sets you apart. The other podcasts, and you’ve been on some of them, and they’re great and fun, but they’re more riffy. They’re riffing with each other and joking around.
MM: Yeah, I just don’t know how long that goes for, you know? I’ll do that with certain guys for a little while if I have them on the show, if that’s where the speed is or where we’re at. I don’t mind doing that, but I don’t know what the hell the point of doing that every week is. It’s no different than morning radio or afternoon radio. ... I just think that separates it from radio.

GM: I was talking to a young comic here in Vancouver recently who assumed that your neuroses, anxieties, whatever you want to call them, were, if not shtick, at least comedic exaggerations. And I was saying, “You know what? Maybe he even tempers them a bit.” What’s your take?
MM: Yeah, I don’t know. It’s like, I think everybody’s gotten so accustomed to assuming everything’s bullshit that they can’t really sense authenticity. I don’t think that I’m exaggerating really. I think you might be right. I think that if I was left to my own devices, and I didn’t have the outlet that I have, they would probably be much more consuming and difficult. Some days are better than others, Guy. (laughs) That’s all I can tell you about that!

GM: I know you hear a lot from your listeners and you take the time to respond to a lot of them. Do you sense any misconceptions about you, other than the one I just mentioned? Because you’re pretty real on your show.
MM: I think that’s the most difficult and the best thing about it is that the people that listen to my show really do know me. They know me better than most people, outside of maybe some of the worst parts of me [which] I don’t share as much, as immediately. But they know me pretty well. And usually their sense of who I am is pretty on the money. I mean, some people tend to misunderstand me. They’re not even worth really mentioning. Sometimes, because I have a certain amount of rawness to it and a certain amount of weird, neurotic honesty to what I do, it rubs people the wrong way and they get very angry. But not very many. I’m not even sure why. It’s just sometimes you say something. When the tone doesn’t have much of a filter on it, you can get very quickly under people’s skin and you want that to be in a good way. But, you know, you can’t have all the cake.

GM: I was thinking that your show is kind of like the real-life version of My Name is Earl.
MM: Ha, yeah. As far as making amends to people?

GM: Exactly.
MM: Well, there’s an issue to that. In order to honour my own voice on this thing, and to talk to other people, I just came to a point in my life where, you know, I’m a fairly isolated guy, I don’t have a lot of close friends. If given a choice, I’ll sit around by myself moreso than not, even though I like talking to people. So in a way this show really forces me to have relationships and to talk to people that are my peers. And I like talking to them. I like hearing about their stuff. And I think in a different point in my life I was much more defensive. And I still can do it at times. I owe a couple people apologies from the last few months. But there are some people that those moments are far in the past and I need to bring them up. And it feels good to do it. It’s just sort of weird because there really are a lot of them. (laughs)

GM: It proves how forgiving people are.
MM: Well, a lot of times it has no impact on them whatsoever. A lot of times what I think is something I did that was hurtful or weird, I made it a big deal in my head but they didn’t make it a big deal at all, which speaks more to my self importance and self-centredness than anything that they’re guilty of. Some people know my general disposition but some of these moments that I bring up, some people are like, “It didn’t really register.” And then it’s even more insulting. I’m like, “Really?! How could you not remember that one thing I said to you twelve years ago?”

GM: And then there are the others, of course, that say, you know, “This is what you did to me” and you don’t remember.
MM: Yeah, I like hearing about those.

GM: You never would have predicted that you would be the new, you know, Dick Cavett or whatever you are, where people are reaching out to you to talk with you, to have these real conversations on your show, ten, fifteen, twenty years ago when, as you say, you were maybe not as forgiving with them.
MM: I’d done talk show pilots before but I don’t really know what this is I’m doing, how it fits into the big world. But yeah, I didn’t anticipate whatever’s happening here but I do enjoy it a lot and it’s really the best thing I’ve ever done. And, yeah, now people kinda want to talk to me, but there are also some people who listen to it, like this week we’re doing two episodes with Jud Apatow and he got in touch with me. He’s this big fan of the show. So he knew there was some sort of emotional expectation to go to this place, you know? And after the second episode, I don’t remember if I did it on-mic or off-, he said, “Did we get there?” and I’m like, “Yeah, I think we got there.” (chuckles) “I think we did.” Because he’s a fairly self-aware guy and he knew from listening that there were some emotional stakes, that we had to push through some walls. We had to have some sort of catharsis.

GM: I remember when I interviewed you for my show, you mentioned Jud Apatow. You knew him and you’re an actor yourself, and you were kind of going, “Hey, Jud, I’m right over here.”
MM: You know, that’s been sort of the most challenging part about my show, in terms of who I was and who I am, is accepting that this is what I’m doing because I like doing it. And sitting down with peers that are infinitely more successful than I am financially and creatively, I don’t know that I could have done it in another time. And there are elements of it that are really quite heartbreaking for me. But I think I have to learn how to live with that.

GM: Heartbreaking because of them being better off?
MM: Because of my own disappointment, you know?

“I fear for my future. I’ve been in show business for a long time and I’m very happy with my stand-up and I’m thrilled about the podcast, but you never know how you’re going to sustain yourself ultimately. So that’s frightening.” – Marc Maron

GM: Is there a sense of regret in the choices you made along the way?
MM: No, I don’t have any real regrets. The only regret that I have is really not knowing – and I think this is my strong suit, as well – I just never understood business. I don’t know that I ever understood fully that this was a business. I thought that I’m going to do what I do and do it to the best of my ability and I’ll be rewarded. I was never calculating enough or socially political enough to understand that this was a business. And also I’m a very sensitive person. My focus was not... I didn’t say I’m going to be a writer, I’m going to write movies and I’m not going to give a shit how they’re received, I’m just going to keep writing them until one hits. Or I’m going to be a television writer and just keep writing scripts or writing jokes for people till one hits. I was just like, I wanna figure out who I am and how to be true to myself and where I stand philosophically and comedically and just share what I do and then it’ll all come around. And it’s just not true. You have to have a certain amount of calculating ambition and understand your limitations and what you’re really trying to get. So my regret is not really knowing that or being instilled with that idea of business. I’m not saying that things can’t change or whatever, but honestly understanding that people who are tremendous successes generally work their asses off and are pretty focussed about that.

GM: Do you feel maybe now’s your chance to be rewarded?
MM: I don’t know. I don’t know what’s going to happen, Guy. I mean, like, I’m being rewarded on the level of, like, the types of e-mails I’m getting are very deep and very personal, not unlike the show I’m doing. I’m having an effect on people’s lives where people are writing me telling me they feel less alone or they’re not as suicidal or I inspired them to quit drinking or smoking or this or that or I made them feel better because they were going through a divorce and I helped them out. You know, these are not just comedy fans that listen to my show. And they’re all very deep, sensitive people who are getting a lot out of this show and that’s certainly rewarding.

But I fear for my future. I’ve been in show business for a long time and I’m very happy with my stand-up and I’m thrilled about the podcast, but you never know how you’re going to sustain yourself ultimately. So that’s frightening. And in relation to what I said on your podcast, yeah, I mean, I didn’t bring that up with Jud because you start to realize it’s no one’s responsibility to take care of anybody else, you know? People take care of their friends if they’re pretty good people. You see that in show business. And that’s one of the liabilities to being a guy who’d rather hang out by himself because he can’t figure out who to call or how to emotionally engage with other people in a way that is not draining or difficult, is that after being in the business for 25 years, I mean, everyone knows me, but no one calls me to hang out. (laughs)

You know, show business is all about coming up with a group of people. There’s just different generations of cliques and groups that sort of come up together. They come up as performers, agents, writers, publicists. You know, I didn’t realize that until years later that every few years there’s a new crew of people that have aligned themselves with each other and if they made the right decisions, they run show business for a little while.

GM: You mentioned that you didn’t bring up work with Apatow for whatever reason, but you also mention that you never really understood the business part. Don’t you think it’s the kinds of people that go, “Hey Jud...”, the sort of squeaky wheels, that are getting the parts?
MM: Maybe, but, you know, I’m proud to a fault. It’s weird when you have that type of pride where you’re like, “I’m not going to do that.” And all of a sudden when you get into a desperate place, you’re left with no choices but to do that. And I’ve been in both positions.

But the thing about Apatow specifically was that I’m not going to put that out there. I wish I was going out on more auditions and stuff. I don’t really have anyone sending me out on that stuff. I guess that’s my own fault. I don’t know. And it’s not that easy. I’m a 46-year-old, fairly specific type. So the other thing you have to wrap your brain around is, you know, what am I really available to do? (laughs) You know what I mean? But what was interesting about Apatow in that interview was that I was pretty depressed going over there. I had hit some sort of wall a few weeks ago. I felt a little depleted, which is one of the liabilities of doing the type of podcast I’m doing or doing the type of broadcasting I’m doing--

GM: And the frequency with which you’re doing it.
MM: Well, some guys do it every day but all of a sudden it’s like, what else do I have to share? What else do I have to give? If I keep looking inside of myself, you get a type of exhaustion that is fairly profound. And I was feeling sort of hopeless. And on top of that, compounded by that, I’m driving down to Santa Monica to talk to Jud. I go to his office and I’m setting up my equipment. I’m going to this guy who makes funny movies and he’s a big-shot and I’m in the lobby there plugging mics into my fucking recorder, and it was just sort of like, Wow, man, this is a little heavy. I feel a little heavy-hearted about this situation. And then I get in there and we start talking and he’s just a lovely guy and we had a great time. And the thing that really connected us was that we actually love comedy and comedy had a similar effect on both of us when we were younger. It provided us a lot of relief and it made us feel less alone and that things were going to be okay. And we both had a fairly distinct experience of that when we were younger. So I left the interview with Jud actually feeling uplifted and proud of myself and happy to be doing what I’m doing, which was sort of surprising.

GM: Do you find those moments when you are heavy-hearted or are feeling down make for more compelling listening, strangely enough?
MM: I come from a fairly depressive father. I know what that looks like and what it feels like in the room to be too heavy-hearted. So I have to be able to manage whatever’s going on in the conversation. You can’t be too heavy-hearted to where you can’t function. I know what that looks like. Because that means that the expectation on whoever you’re talking to would be too great. So, I mean, I wasn’t in that place. And I’m usually publicly not in that place because because I have anger to buffer that, or comedy, to stop me from being that guy. But what carried me through that particular moment was that it’s exciting to talk to people that are successful and have done things that you like and have made it, to a certain degree. It’s a little bit exciting. I know you’ve probably felt that before.

GM: The difference is with me is that I’m just another journalist that they have to talk to. But with you, they know you and are fans of yours so I would imagine it would be different.
MM: It was exciting because he loves the show. And a lot of people like the show. And that’s worth a lot. And it’s also very satisfying to me and I’m very proud of it and I’m grateful that people like the show. I just get a little scared sometimes, that’s all.

GM: Has the show changed your relationships or interactions in your daily life?
MM: In terms of professionally?

GM: No, just how you interact with people. Have you softened at all?
MM: I think that it’s serving a lot of purposes. It’s helping me generate a deeper type of comedy, it’s making me a little less neurotic in some respects. It helps me when I see so many people have similar experience to me from the feedback I get from people coming to shows – that sensitive, sort of slightly angry people are most people. I don’t know, it’s just making me feel a little more connected and a little less alone and a little healthier and a little appreciated. Those things are good things.

GM: Your interviewing style, or conversational style – this personal, inward-looking, self-centred discussion – really works and it’s kind of counterintuitive. Talking about yourself draws similar reactions reactions from people and it gets them talking. It draws them out.
MM: Yeah, I don’t know how that evolved.

GM: So that was not a conscious decision; that’s just you getting in there and setting up the mic and talking.
MM: Right. As I hear it now, and people like you can see that happens, I don’t want it to be too conscious, but that is sort of what I do. I do think it is oddly disarming to talk about yourself when you’ve invited someone over to talk.

GM: And it’s something that you don’t hear or see on other talk shows because they’re expected to ask this and this and this. But you get to those points through a different way.
MM: Yeah. I don’t want it to be a pitch fest. Some people aren’t capable... Some people can only do so much and are only willing to go certain places in the moment. And I don’t want them to go any place that they can’t handle or whatever. So I’m just dealing with other comics, primarily. I’m not dealing with... I just get a sense of what’s happening. I just want it to be real and fun for me and to have a good conversation where we forget that we’re actually recording something. Most interview shows and most talk shows are really about selling product of one kind or another.

GM: So it has affected your stand-up. You say you’re reaching a deeper level.
MM: I’m doing what I do here in the garage when I talk on the mics and there’s a lot of things I talk about without the confines of an audience or the expectation of laughter. This is a very free stage I have in here talking into my mic alone. And some of that stuff is making it onto the stage. Some of this stuff that I talk about improvisationally in my garage is starting to develop itself on stage as well.

GM: Is the podcast becoming more important or equally as important as the stand-up?
MM: It’s definitely equally as important, if not more important. I mean, I really enjoy performing for people that know me and want to see me, so it’s helping with that. I went out to the Comedy Store last night and it was a little bit soul-crushing because you get a certain openness with this and you get a certain amount of openness when people are coming to see you, where you can trust them more and you know that they know you so you can really do stuff. To go into a fucking dark cave where it’s just a room full of drunk retards is just part of the job but I’d rather the other thing, you know?

GM: It’s becoming world-wide, right? People listen from all over and you’re going all over and they’re coming out to see you.
MM: Yeah, yeah. I was in London. A lot of What The Fuckers in London came out. And Canada. Yeah, yeah. They’re coming out and they’re driving distances to do it.

GM: Almost every comic I know lives or dies off their last show. Is that the same with the podcasts?
MM: I don’t know. They seem to live a lot longer. There’s a hundred of them out there.

GM: Right, but you’re putting out two a week. Do you want any do-overs when you finish one and go, “That wasn’t as good” and it stays with you till the next one?
MM: In a given interview you wish you’d asked certain things and you can’t unless you go back and do it. I have a certain amount of control. They’re not going out live and if I want to do follow-up, I can. You get a Mencia thing... If we want to do two episodes, we can. I don’t have a lot of regrets. I mean, some of them are different than others. But we’re not going to put one out that we think is flat.

GM: Have you held any back because of that?
MM: Uh... Segments, shorter interviews. We’ve done a couple of bits that we haven’t put up yet. But oddly we had one in the can for a couple of months and we ended up using it. It’s really just a matter of what’s going on and how many we have. I think early on, there was maybe a couple interviews that we didn’t use because they weren’t long enough or they didn’t go anywhere. But really, almost all of them go up.

“It’s just show business. People are just entertainers, whether they’re clowns or jugglers or people that work on the trapeze or people that sing. I mean, Carrot Top is just Carrot Top. After a certain point, it’s like, he’s not taking anything away from me. Is he lowering the bar culturally? Maybe. Does he represent something not unlike Dane Cook that I find is a sad indicator of where we are culturally? Perhaps. Is he the enemy? I don’t think so.” – Marc Maron

GM: The bigger the show gets, do you find yourself holding in some opinions?
MM: Like what?

GM: I was thinking of what you told me about British comedy the last time you were here and your opinion on it, and then saying in your intro after having been there about having these opinions on British comedy and maybe you condescended to it. But you had never mentioned it on air leading up to it.
MM: I think what we learn ultimately is that a lot of things are said out of ignorance. It’s like that stuff you put up about Dane Cook, in terms of what I said about Dane Cook. Yeah, I still felt all those things. I wish you would have sent it to me before. I wish I’d remembered how clear I had said that stuff about Dane Cook because I don’t think I had changed my opinion of him. I wasn’t as clear about what I was angry about and ultimately what I was saying is that he’s indicative of something in the culture and I find him uninteresting. And when he reached out to me to do the interview, I felt like I handled it like that. But I wouldn’t have been afraid to say that to him; I just didn’t have it at my fingertips. And I think what you’re addressing is, I think a lot of things that are said out of ignorance... I mean, my experience of British comedy was fairly specific and narrow. So once I get over there and you start to realize there’s a lot of cats over here that are trying to do something, and then you talk to a guy like Stewart Lee and you’re like, “This guy’s great.” So what I’m doing, even in saying it like I said after the fact, is that I didn’t know. And whatever I’d said and whatever my judgments are, they were narrow-minded because I had no idea what was going on over there. So that’s what you learn. If anything, this podcast is making me a little more forgiving. If there’s one thing I sense I’m doing is that I’m bridging a certain gap in making certain comics people. You talk to somebody like a person, they become a person. We take broad strokes and we make assessments and criticisms and we dismiss things very quickly. And it’s usually more nuanced than that.

GM: I just saw a clip from your old web TV show where you met with Carrot Top. You said you had been making fun of him for years but hadn’t seen his act until then.
MM: With Carrot Top it was a weird opportunity. I don’t know why I felt like doing that at that particular point in time, but I had some moment where the big change in my head from when I was younger to now is that it’s just show business. It’s just show business. People are just entertainers, whether they’re clowns or jugglers or people that work on the trapeze or people that sing. Who the fuck... It’s just show business. I mean, anyone’s standards as to what stand-up is or whatever, whatever the tradition is that came out of the ’80s, I mean, Carrot Top is just Carrot Top. After a certain point, it’s like, he’s not taking anything away from me. Is he lowering the bar culturally? Maybe. Maybe he did at one time. Does he represent something not unlike Dane Cook that I find is a sad indicator of where we are culturally? Perhaps. Is he the enemy? I don’t think so. So I just realized that after all those years of Carrot Top being this, you know, go-to whipping boy, I’d never really seen him. (laughs) And I just went there and watched his show and talked to him. That’s all.

GM: Similar to that is with Carlos Mencia and Dane Cook, it’s great to have an informed opinion, but there are so many parrots out there that are like, “I heard he does this therefore I hate him” without actually having heard them.
MM: And also you don’t know these guys. The weird thing that it comes down to, more than politicians – I’m not sure they are people; I know comedians are people – usually opinions are based on their act or just assuming that their act is who they are. These are just guys. So it’s just sort of interesting to hear them, even for me because I don’t know them. Most of these people [his guests] I don’t know that well. So just talk to them as people and see what happens. Let other people listen to them talking like people.

GM: Do you enjoy being the comedy judge, sitting in judgment of guys like Mencia and Cook?
MM: I would never talk to anyone as long as I talk to them on the show. I don’t think Dave Attell has ever talked to anybody that long, ever. Do I like it? I find it very compelling. I found those episodes to be very compelling. The Carlos one was difficult because I was in this position where I did the one and I felt like he evaded the questions and I didn’t know enough and I was in an awkward situation where I had to do the second one, which really turned out to be pretty fascinating.

GM: But another way you could have talked to him is like anyone else, any of your other guests, rather than getting down to the criticisms, which I understand you have to address.
MM: He had an agenda to come do my show and I had one as well. It’s just that the agenda I had on the first show was much different than the agenda I had on the second show. Having not prepared myself with the information or not having a history with Carlos at all or even being at the Comedy Store and knowing how widespread these accusations were. I was actually going into the first episode in defense of him, to try to get him to, sort of, clear this up. And then after he sort of snowplowed me – he just sort of steamrolled me with all this fairly well-prepared, well-thought out bullshit – that I was like, “What the hell’s going on here?” And I really had to go talk to the Latino guys and the other guys to really realize the scope of what he was accused of beyond this Joe Rogan event and the George Lopez event and this Bill Cosby thing. And then it just became this thing where it’s like, “Oh my God, I can’t put this out without a follow-up and without exploring this more.” And that’s where the second episode came from. So would any of that happened had we just been hanging out chatting? No. No fucking way.

GM: I think since your interviews he’s said something even more damning to himself about stealing.
MM: I think he said it in that movie, I Am Comic, to a certain degree. I think it becomes pretty clear that he’s a guy that’s never going to unfuck himself. On that second interview, there were moments where I felt like telling him to just unburden himself. “You’re just wrestling with so much.” And I think there’s something inside of him that’s really wired in fucked-up ways. It’s beyond me. It’s out of my wheelhouse.

GM: You said you’d done some talk show pilots in the past. Do you see this show growing into another medium?
MM: I don’t know. I don’t know. I’d like to find a place for it where I can make a little bit more of a living off of it because I’m working really hard at it. I’d just like to figure that out.

GM: The danger is always the Peter Principle.
MM: Which is?

GM: You rise to your level of incompetence. So it’s great in this format but if it moves to the next format there might be little tweaks and people would say, “I liked it when it was...” whatever.
MM: I think the way to do it is to leave this in this format and then to do something that is a companion to it, that uses it as a backdrop but doesn’t diminish this particular format.

GM: It’s becoming more commercial. At least, you’re getting more sponsors, which helps you. That’s a necessary evil, I guess.
MM: I mean, if I’m not going to charge for the show, what am I going to do? I’m doing two of these a week. It’s a lot of work. Me and my producer, we’d like to make a living. It’s a professional product. We’re consistent in delivering the shows and we put a lot into them. I’d like to earn a living doing this. Or a good part of my living. And I don’t want to alienate listeners and I want to respect the medium. I can choose my advertisers. I was selling dildos last month. I sold free audio downloads and coffee. I couldn’t move any Man Grates, which just is a testament to my audience. There’s not a lot of grillers. Sub Pop Records just sponsored one episode so that was cool.

GM: And another thing that sets your show apart is you don’t just get the usual suspects as guests, the comics who make the rounds to all the podcasts. You get them, you get well-known comics, you get unknown comics we’re learning about, musicians, writers, friends, family and your fans. And they’re all, in large part due to your conversations with them, fascinating.
MM: Yeah, it’s an interesting thing about people. Everybody’s got a story once they relax a little bit. My dad doesn’t even know he’s on the show.

GM: (laughs) You don’t tell him?
MM: No. He doesn’t know how to listen to it, so he has no idea.

GM: I guess his patients don’t know about it, either.
MM: I don’t know. His patients are primarily drug addicts so I would think they’d be listening but I don’t know. (chuckles)

GM: WTF is primarily a show about comedy, and a lot of your listeners are comedy nerds, but you’ve got that extra element where you can talk to anybody and it’s just fascinating.
MM: Thank you, Guy.

GM: You’re doing a live episode here. One of your monthly live ones, right?
MM: Yeah.

GM: Do you have a preference: live or one-on-one?
MM: They’re different animals, you know? Live shows are basically a panel show; people on stage being funny. Don’t expect the same level of intimacy. And I think in a lot of the live shows we’re all playing for laughs. So it’s very different. I like doing them once or twice a month. I like both of them, but I like the longer conversations.