Andy Richter interview

When I interviewed Andy Richter back in 2008, he hadn't yet returned to Conan O'Brien's side on The Tonight Show. So obviously there are no questions about the big Conan-Leno rift.

Andy Richter – August 28, 2008

"There's a lot of people who really feel like it's kinda like a gym where they keep their comedy licks sharp or something. And I don't feel it like that. I enjoy doing it but for me it's just about going and being funny with funny friends. And I can do that in my backyard having a barbecue. I don't need any kind of a group of half-drunk strangers to do it." – Andy Richter

Guy MacPherson: Hello, Andy.
Andy Richter: Hi there. How are you?

GM: Good, thanks. That's the same music playing both times I called.
AR: It should be.

GM: Oh, okay. Is Hank Williams a favourite of yours?
AR: Um... yeah. I mean, I don't listen to him all the time but definitely an all-time favourite. I don't know if they have it up there but it's a way to make more money off of you. They call it 'ring back', I think. You can pay four dollars a song for a year. They get you to choose songs. I have them on a random mix. You can't do them fully random but day-to-day. So like all day it'll be the same one and then tomorrow it'll be different.

GM: Yeah, I haven't heard that before so maybe we don't have that up here. Or I don't know the right people.
AR: It's Verizon. And it mostly irritates people.

GM: Depends on what the song is, I suppose.
AR: Yeah, yeah. Well, my dad hates everything. But I have a lot of friends who are mostly irritated by it. They say, "Why can't I just listen to a ring tone? That would be fine."

GM: What does your dad like?
AR: Classical, classical, classical.

GM: The Russian composers?
AR: Yeah. He actually translated songbooks of about four or five Russian composers into the phonetic transcriptions for opera singers so that they'll know exactly how to pronounce... I guess there's some sort of phonetic alphabet that is there for opera singers so whether they're singing Italian or French they don't have to know the language in order to know how to sing it. I guess no one had ever done that for the Russian songbooks. So he's the only person who's ever done it and there's about four people in the world who are interested.

GM: Somebody's interested. That's the main thing.
AR: Yeah, exactly.

GM: So your kid is in swimming class right now?
AR: Yeah. In fact, I had to drop him off and run home because I forgot the goddamn cheque book to pay for the swim lessons. But I'm on my way back there now.

GM: You don't have a nanny for these mundane tasks? I thought all big-time celebrities would just pass that off on their nannies.
AR: Well, big celebrities do. Medium to small celebrities don't so much. We have somebody who comes in and cleans the house and babysits but it's a pretty normal childhood our children are going through in terms of having access. In fact, they probably get more of me than most kids, than parents with legit jobs. Because I do get a lot of free time when I'm not working, which, unfortunately – thank you Screen Actors Guild – has been a lot more than I would have liked lately.

GM: Are they on strike? I can't keep track.
AR: No, they're like on this fake kind of ersatz bullshit strike. Still making a lot of noise. I can't even follow it because I'm so disgusted by it. I just say what's wrong with the deal ACTRA got, what's wrong with the deal the Writers Guild got? Let's just get to work.

GM: But it probably allows you to do the festival up here.
AR: I would have done the festival anyway, time permitting. I love Canada. I've worked in Vancouver a few times.

GM: On shitty movies?
AR: On shitty movies, that's exactly right!

GM: Which one?
AR: My Boss's Daughter, with Ashton Kutcher and Tara Reid. I shouldn't say shitty. I don't care about the people that made them but I do care about the people that enjoy these movies. Like, I always feel bad saying, "Oh, that's a shitty movie" then have somebody say, "But I loved that movie!" Then I feel bad. Everyone should be entitled to enjoying whatever Ashton Kutcher/Tara Reid movie they want.

GM: But you know, I like some shitty music and shitty movies, and you must, too. But we accept it for what it is.
AR: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I don't see myself as some sort of major artiste, anyway, so to say that I'm in a couple of shitty movies does not... It would be almost expected. (laughs) No, I mean, I just think I started out in television comedy and, you know, most comedy, even, isn't funny. So of course if you're doing comedy you're going to be in some stuff that's not great.

GM: I gotta say I loved you in Cabin Boy.
AR: Oh, thank you very much.

GM: I liked the whole movie.
AR: Well, that one I do like. I like very much.

GM: But it would be considered among most people, I'm thinking, a shitty movie, wouldn't it?
AR: You know, I don't know about that one. That one I would defend against that title because it isn't. It's funny, it's different, it's weird. Chris Elliott one time told me that people either really enjoyed his work or they seemed to be really angered by it.

GM: That's a good reaction.
AR: There's not a lot of in between. And I think a lot of the time in his stuff the people who don't get the joke tend to think that the joke is on them.

GM: Oh, really?
AR: It could very well be. I'm not sure. I actually just saw Brian Doyle-Murray, who was in Cabin Boy, and we were just talking about Chris Elliott, having not talked to him in a few years.

GM: What's he doing now?
AR: There's a new Mike Judge midseason replacement show called The Good Family and he's doing a voice on that. He told me that his wife was taking a doctorate or something in Manhattan, Kansas. So he's been living in Kansas for the last few years.

GM: Are you in Los Angeles? Is that where you live?
AR: Yes, I am.

GM: Does Vancouver have the reputation of being the shitty movie capital?
AR: A shitty movie place?

GM: I read in an interview you did...
AR: What did I say?

GM: It was in Interview magazine, I think, and you said something about going up to Vancouver and making a shitty movie, and you meant it in general.
AR: Oh, yeah. I could have said going to Tanzania and making a shitty movie. It wasn't anything in particular about Vancouver.

GM: That's okay. I'm not being an overly defensive Canadian or anything like that.
AR: I actually have had wonderful times working in Canada. I worked in Toronto, too. Vancouver gets a lot of genre stuff, especially television. Werewolf and vampire stuff. That stuff is so effects heavy they're looking to cut costs. So a lot of that stuff goes up there. I was just in New Zealand earlier this year for three months. It's kind of becoming the new Vancouver.

GM: What were you doing there?
AR: It was something called It Came From Upstairs. It's kind of like a Goonies, kinda like a kids action movie. Kids do battle with cute little aliens. They're evil but they're still kinda cute, because they need to go onto Happy Meals.

GM: When you making movies in Vancouver, did you get out and do things? Or did you just drink in your hotel room?
AR: I played some golf. I didn't do too much. At the time, my son was little the last time I was there for any substantial amount of time. So we didn't get to do a lot of kind of the stuff that we would normally do now that he's older. We didn't get to kind of go to, you know, Vancouver Island or visit the more adventurous things that we would do now. But I played some golf, enjoyed the fantastic Pacific Rim dining up there. Just fantastic sushi and noodles. Every kind of Asian food that you could possibly want. And tried not to get shit on by crows. One time my wife and I were walking under a street lamp in Vancouver and we saw a crow and we knew enough by then to be careful while walking under the crows. And we saw another guy coming towards us and we didn't speak up and he nearly got shat on. And he looked at us and it was a moment of recognition in his eyes. It's kind of like if a piano is falling and someone's walking under it, you just think, "Well, is it going to hit him?"

GM: I've never heard that about the crows here. They attack you, but never heard about the shitting.
AR: No, they attacked us in that particular way. A few times. Or maybe it's just me.

"There's a group of young people who are interested in comedy now and the Conan show was a very formative influence on them. And I feel very proud to have had a part in that." – Andy Richter

GM: Yeah, they can spot American tourists. I was looking at your credits and you've done tons. Does it irk you that you're probably most remembered as Conan's sidekick? Or am I wrong about that?
AR: No, you're not wrong at all. In fact, that's usually when people say they recognize me. [Unintelligible] And I usually shortcut it with that. It's just a fact of life.

GM: Even though it was eight years ago.
AR: Yeah. Ed McMahon's probably in the same boat.

GM: But he never did anything else.
AR: Yeah, but you know, if I had had a show that had stayed on the air more than ten minutes, then I might have an axe to grind. I also have to remember that that show and where it belongs in the comedy landscape... You know, that show, to me, is what David Letterman was to me when I was a kid. There's a group of young people who are interested in comedy now and the Conan show was a very formative influence on them. And I feel very proud to have had a part in that. I'm also proud of the other shows I've done, like Andy Richter Controls the Universe. A lot of people really enjoyed that show and really hold that show in a special place. And that I feel great about, too. But it doesn't have the impact that the Conan show does, and the first seven years that the Conan show had. Andy Richter Contols the Universe, by the way, is coming out on DVD.

GM: How many episodes were there?
AR: There were, uh, 19, I believe. There's about four or five of them that weren't aired. So it's actually a pretty good thing to put on DVD. I have absolutely no idea why it's taken so long other than the fact that Paramount appears to be run by members of the old Soviet Politburo and they don't exactly move very fast.

GM: And Andy Barker, P.I. was most enjoyable.
AR: That one's actually probably my favourite. I really enjoyed doing that show. It was a real bummer that it got cancelled. I was a little more prepared for it just because I had the callouses built up. When Andy Richter Controls the Universe got cancelled, I kinda knew it was coming but it threw me for a loop for a good long time. For months at a time I was pretty depressed about it whereas when Andy Barker got cancelled I probably ultimately hurt a little bit more but it didn't last as long. It was also so much quicker. Andy Richter was just drawn out. It was like it was doomed from the beginning but it just kinda dragged out over two seasons.

GM: Now you're hardened. You're inured to the pain.
AR: No, not really.

GM: But you accept it as part of the business?
AR: I don't know if I would put it like that. I would just say that there's nothing else to do with it.

GM: You started in improv. A lot of performers that started in standup or improv and who go on to TV, they still like to go back it, like it's the most rewarding time for them on stage. Do you find that with improv, or is it just another thing to do?
AR: It's fun but I don't have... Like, there's an actor named David Kechner, who I've known since I was a baby improviser. He's done pretty well. He's done a lot of character roles. He's been in a lot of big movies. But he still does improv on a weekly basis and he's got four kids, or something like that. I don't have that kind of devotion to it. There's a lot of people who really feel like it's kinda like a gym where they keep their comedy licks sharp or something. And I don't feel it like that. I enjoy doing it but for me it's just about going and being funny with funny friends. And I can do that in my backyard having a barbecue. (laughs) I don't need any kind of a group of half-drunk strangers to do it. And also, too, it's just a young person's game. It's one thing to see two 24-year-olds on stage trying to figure out where they are. They're going, "Hello." "Hello, how are you?" And slowly trying to figure out... They're basically playing make-believe. And if it's a 42- or 43-year-old with children it seems a little more ridiculous that they should be playing make-believe. But I still have fun with it. That's why I do things like the festival because it is a good chance to get out. And now that I have kids, I don't get out as much. So it's actually a great excuse to get out and do some fun stuff with people.

GM: Do you do many festivals?
AR: Not a lot. I've done a few. I've done Juste Pour Rire. There was one in New York. But not a lot. I'm not actively involved, like the guys from the Upright Citizens Brigade. They're out doing television shows and writing screenplays and other things. And they still have a theatre and they still are very much involved in the sketch comedy world and the improv comedy world, in terms of doing it in small theatres. And I don't really do that anymore. I never really stayed with any particular group. You know, I still do things with the UCB fairly frequently and I have friends who do shows. Paul F. Tompkins has a regular show. I think he may be coming up to Vancouver. Although I think he just got a job in New York so I'm not sure. But a few weeks ago I did a sketch with him in his show. That's enough to kinda keep me busy and have fun. And there's enough outlets that if I think of a sketch that would be good for a kind of stage presentation, I can do that. But for the most part, it's work.

GM: What exactly is it you're doing here? Are you with Comedy Death-Ray or UCB?
AR: Both. UCB does a long-form improv based on a first-person monologue. I'll probably be the monologuer. But I may do scene work. I'm not sure which. Whatever they need. Comedy Death-Ray, I'm not sure what I'm doing with them. But Scott Aukerman and BJ Porter, who are sort of Comedy Death-Ray, I'm working on a pilot for sketch comedy for Comedy Central with them. So Scott asked if I would get involved this time up there with them, which I was happy to do. So I'm going to do something with them. I'm not sure what I'm doing with them yet. I'm sure they'll tell me. And if not, it wouldn't be that unusual to show up with just a vague idea of what I'm going to be doing. I've experienced that before.

GM: Are most of your friends comics?
AR: Comics in that they make comedy. Not so much standups but writers and comedic actors.

GM: Does the lineup at this festival at all factor into your decision to come?
AR: Oh, definitely. Definitely. I mean, Scott and BJ are there, and then to have the UCB involved. It definitely helps. I wouldn't want to go and do a comedy festival for the grand glory of having myself get on stage with people. I'm doing it because I know the people and because it sounds like a fun weekend. To me, that's what a comedy festival should be. And that's the feel of it. It shouldn't feel like "Here's Andy Richter jonesing yet again to get on stage somewhere." "Well, Vancouver'll do. They'll take me!"

GM: You said at one time you were more interested in becoming a character actor. Now that you've had a taste of the limelight with your own shows, has that changed? Or do you still strive to be a character actor?
AR: Yes, definitely. I mean, if someone wanted to start paying me 20 million dollars a movie to be the lead in films, I wouldn't turn it down. But that hasn't happened yet. So I don't think it's likely to happen. But you take everything else out of it and I think that's the most interesting way to be. You get to be different people where I think that the people who play leads in movies frequently have to be the same person again and again and again. You see people like an Alec Baldwin go from being a leading man into a character actor. That doesn't happen very often that someone can transition. It's usually you get to be a leading man and then you're done. They put you in the cinema stud farm and you just make more future stars.

GM: Have you been to any of your high school reunions?
AR: I have not.

GM: Because you've been unavailable or because there's no way in hell you'd go?
AR: Well, I'm a terrible sentimentalist. I mean in that I'm not good at it. So I don't really have a lot of interest. And I don't like a fuss being made. Now there probably wouldn't be that much of one. But early on when I was on the Conan show, my tenth anniversary... I mean, I couldn't do it anyway because I was shooting a remote that weekend for the Conan show. But I had spoken to my mother and she said, "You should try and make it work." And I said, "Well, I'm working so I can't. And besides, I'm just afraid there'll be a big fuss made over me and it'll be a big deal." And she said, "Oh, you're flattering yourself." The fact that I wasn't coming to the reunion was front page news of the local paper: "Richter not attending" was the front page news. If I had made it... Although maybe if I had made it they wouldn't have cared. Maybe it was just the not making it that was newsworthy.

GM: I recommend going to your next one, Andy.
AR: Alright, I'll try it.

Maz Jobrani interview

Maz Jobrani – March 7, 2008

"Bush and Ahmadinejad actually have a lot in common and they're both playing the same card. They're both millennialists, they're both highly religious, and they're both on the extreme." – Maz Jobrani

Guy MacPherson: When did you move to the States?
Maz Jobrani: I moved to the States when I was six. It was late '78 and the revolution was just starting to happen over there in Iran. What's interesting is I actually went back and looked at some old New York Times from that year and no one really knew it was going to lead to what it led to. What was happening was there were protests in the streets and my dad was in business in New York City. Schools let out early that year around Christmas holidays, winter holidays, just because of the protests, I think. So my dad sent for me, my mom and my sister to come out and join him for a couple of weeks. Nowadays I say we basically came out for two weeks and we stayed for 30 years. We actually packed for two weeks. We even left my baby brother back home because we thought we'd be back in two weeks. He came out about six to eight months later. I joke nowadays that that baby brother grew up and he is now President Ahmadinejad. But, uh, that's not the case.

GM: You said Christmas holidays. It's not Christmas, though, is it?
MJ: I was at an international school so we did have Christmas, actually. Most Iranians that I know are very secular. We celebrate, like, Christmas and the Persian New Year and you name it, the Fourth of July or whatever. You name it, we celebrate it.

GM: What was your dad's business?
MJ: My dad had an electric company in Iran. So he was a self-made millionaire. He was very well-connected out there. He wasn't in trouble with the government when the revolution happened. It wasn't that he had been in the government or anything where they wanted him, but at the same time because he had been successful we didn't go back right off the bat because he did have friends in government. So you just never knew at that time what was going to happen or who they were going to execute or what they wanted to do. So Pops kinda had to lay low out here and do his business. He invested out here in real estate of a sort and as it turns out he lost a lot of his money so he went back to Iran several years later. And that's a common story with a lot of Iranian men. They came to America with a lot of money and didn't know how the system works and lost their money and have gone back.

GM: He went back to stay?
MJ: Yeah. The idea was, he had all this property back there that had just been sitting there dormant for about ten, twelve years. So he went back saying "Maybe I can turn that into something." And the process just takes so long when you go back there. All the red tape in the Middle East is ten times worse than the red tape in the west. There's all these kinds of rules. They said stuff like, "Well, you've been gone for ten or twelve years, you have to pay taxes on your property. So you owe back taxes." They go, "Until you pay those taxes, there's this law that you're forbidden to do business or leave the country." So he was kinda stuck. So then he had to find a partner to come and basically take the property that he had and put money towards rebuilding properties there so they could make some money so he could pay his back taxes and do business. And then he's also older, so that lifestyle there is a lot more his pace. Life is a lot slower in Tehran and in Iran where he lives. Whenever he comes out to visit here, we're always running around so he barely even sees us.

GM: Have you been back?
MJ: I went back about ten years ago before I started doing jokes about Ahmadinejad and the government. It was interesting. What was great about it was I hadn't been there in twenty years and one thing I noticed was that your sense of smell and taste are amazing because I walked into my aunt's house and I smelled a smell I hadn't smelled in twenty years but I instantly recognized it, as well as the taste of her food. It was just like instant.

So that part of it was really cool. And seeing family was really cool. And just seeing the kindness of people. If you believe what you see in news and all that stuff you would think that Iranians are savages. Although a lot of news organizations have been covering it better now. But the fact is they're very westernized, they're very hip. There's a big young population there that are into, you know, the internet and movies and all this other stuff. Very much into the western culture and educated. So that part of it was cool. What was kind of depressing to me, though, was with all that said, it doesn't seem like they have a lot of opportunity. I always mention like if you're in California, or Los Angeles even, you look around and there's like ten schools you could go to, whether they're universities or junior colleges or whatever. You could be at some university or somewhere studying. In Iran, they have the University of Tehran and if you don't get into that, you're screwed. So there are all these brains sitting around with nothing to do. So it's depressing in that way.

I had a lot of people coming up to me going, "Can you help me maybe come to America and work there?" And what was depressing about that was that I'm thinking these poor guys, they don't speak the language that well and if they were to even come to America they'd end up driving cabs or something. Or even if they spoke the language, it's coming to America and starting over in a whole new system. It was kinda depressing, really. But at the same time, I always remind people in the west that the people there love America.

GM: Not all of them!
MJ: Not all of them, but I'm saying a lot of them do. Just the other day, somebody was telling me, believe it or not, that Ahmadinejad's approval rating is lower than Bush's. Now, I can't confirm that, but I can believe that. See, the thing is, in Iran, like I said, there's all these young people that do want more freedoms, they do want more of their rights. What's happening is this regime that has a tight hold on power just isn't giving it up. But on the streets, or even if you go on the internet right now and enter 'Ahmadinejad', you'll see a bunch of clips of people making fun of him. There were protests at a university he was at. And the reason all this is is because first of all they want more freedoms, the youth. They also want more opportunity. They want their government to do something for them, economy-wise, and they're not.

That's what's been interesting about this whole... sorry if I'm babbling here... nuclear issue and the U.S. sanctioning and all that stuff. What it does is it allows Ahmadinejad and that regime to point to the west and go, "See? They don't want us to have nuclear weapons. See? They're holding us back. See? That's our enemy. So let's not worry about the fact that we're not taking care of the economy and giving you opportunities, let's worry about these guys." And if anybody steps up to protest or criticise the government and say, "Hey, what's up? You're not dealing with the economics" or the reformists when they say, "Let's talk to the west and get this stupid thing over with," these guys come back with, "You're working with the west. You're trying to change people's minds here. So you are part of the enemy." And it helps them, this whole conflict helps them avoid facing their own actual problems.

GM: That sounds very familiar, doesn't it? It's true in the States, too.
MJ: Exactly, yeah.

GM: If you question the government on any of this, you're not patriotic or something.
MJ: Exactly, exactly! When I did my Tonight Show set, I tried to make a point that Bush and Ahmadinejad actually have a lot in common and they're both playing the same card. They're both millennialists, they're both highly religious, and they're both on the extreme. Neither one of them is in the middle, to go, "Hey, let's really figure this thing out and move on with it, with dealing with our own countries and the situations we're in."

"I've had people go, 'Access of Evil? Like a-c-c-e-s-s? Like access?' I'm like, 'No! Remember Axis of Evil? The George Bush speech?' They're like, 'Hmm... nope, don't remember it.'" – Maz Jobrani

GM: When you're touring with the Axis of Evil comedy tour and travelling by plane, surely you don't say you're with the Axis of Evil tour? You have enough trouble as it is, I bet.
MJ: It's actually interesting because when we first formed the group we had to get a bank account and all this stuff and I was afraid we were going to go to the bank and they'd be like, "Okay, wait here one minute" and come back with guys in suits with shades going, "What's this Axis of Evil thing you're trying to register?" But I've actually been to the bank a few times and we went to a place where I knew a girl that worked there so I was like, "Okay, that's cool, she'll hook it up." But then ever since then I've gone to like deposit stuff for Axis of Evil and people don't even flinch. They're like, "Okay, no problem" and they just do it real quickly.

You know what's interesting to me, actually, now that I think about it? This has been interesting: some people aren't even paying attention to it. I've had people go, "Access of Evil? Like a-c-c-e-s-s? Like access?" I'm like, "No! Remember Axis of Evil? The George Bush speech?" They're like, "Hmm... nope, don't remember it." I'm like, "Really?!" And that's just depressing.

GM: So really, the real Axis of Evil could be operating out in the open and no one would even know.
MJ: Yeah, people have forgotten already.

GM: Who's your North Korean comic on the tour?
MJ: We joked about that always. So when we went to the Middle East, the guy that organized the tour had found this South Korean who had been born in Saudi Arabia and grew up in Jordan. And he sang. He has a good voice. And he speaks Arabic fluently. So he brought him on the tour with us. Ahmed Ahmed would go up and he'd say, "We've been looking for a North Korean. We haven't been able to find one. But we found the next best thing, a South Korean." And this guy would come out and he would start talking to the crowd in Korean first and we'd be like, "We have no idea what you're talking about." And then the next thing you know he'd start belting out music in Arabic and the crowd would go nuts. And then he would start talking to them in Arabic and they would go even nuttier. And the irony of it was here's this Korean and he's the only guy who really spoke Arabic. I mean, Ahmed speaks a little bit of Arabic but Aaron sure doesn't and I don't. I speak Farsi. So he was on tour with us in the Middle East and it was a hit.

GM: Where in the Middle East were you?
MJ: We went to Oman, Jordan, Beirut, Kuwait, Egypt, and Dubai. Five countries.

GM: And obviously you're all performing in English.
MJ: Yeah, it was all in English. That was another one of these eye-opening situations. Our tickets started selling out. We sold out 27 shows. For example, even in Egypt, before I even knew where we performing somebody had done a FaceBook thing and people had RSVP'd and everywhere we went was packed. Tickets were hot. I kept joking that we were the David Hasselhoffs of the Middle East. Because you know how Hasselhoff is hot in Germany? And at one point I was like, "Do these people speak English?" I thought maybe they just have money and they're like, "Oh, this is a hot ticket so I'll buy the ticket and go see what the hell this is all about."

But we went there and, again, it was an eye-opener because not only do they all speak English very fluently, they know so much more about the west than the west knows about them. And I kept telling them, "I'm going to tell my friends to come and visit." Because we've been scared into going into any of these places. But there are people living their lives very normally. I mean, Beirut, even though right now it's in a lockdown downtown because of their conflicts and stuff, downtown has an area that looks like you're walking through the streets of Italy or Rome. It's just very European. There are these outdoor shops and restaurants. It's just amazing. That's what it is. And yet people here think like camels and turbans and bombs and terrorists.

GM: And eye-opening for you, too, I guess.
MJ: It was. And what was interesting for me being Iranian, I always defend young Iranians about them being modern and stuff. But I was kind of ashamed of myself that I had not thought that the rest of the Middle East was going to be like that. And there they were exactly like the young Iranians.

GM: That's the media, right? There's a section of Vancouver that gets all sorts of bad press and I know people who are afraid to go there. But it's fine. People live there.
MJ: Yeah, it's crazy. It's all about where you point the camera lens and how many times you show it. There's a book called Reel Bad Arabs by this guy Jack Shahein. He watched, like, I don't know how many thousands of hours of films where they depicted Middle Easterners negatively. He actually made a documentary out of it, too. And he just makes this great point. He goes, "Don't you think that after we've depicted these people like this so much that it makes it easier for us to drop bombs on them?" And it's true. Subconsciously. When I hear people on talk radio going, like, "Why don't we just drop a bomb on 'em and let 'em figure it out?", those people are buying into the fact that there's a bunch of cockroaches living out there.

GM: How long have you been doing standup?
MJ: Ten years.

GM: Have you always had the Iranian angle? Did you start out that way or were you more generic?
MJ: When I first started out I took a class and the lady said talk about what you know. So I was talking about growing up Iranian in America. For me, ever since I came to America, I was a kid when the hostage situation happened and I had a kid calling me a "fucking Iranian" in school and I had no idea why he was doing it. So I've had to deal with it my whole life and I had jokes about stuff and everything. Then September 11th hit and I tried to tone it down a little bit. I thought at first that the world was going to come together and rally around a central cause and then you see that they're leading us into a war with Iraq and there's rights being taken away and falsely accused people and all this other stuff. And you go, "Wait a minute!" It's kind of my job to bring these things to the forefront. So that's kind of inspired me to talk more about those issues.

GM: A lot of ethnic comics are role models whether they want to be or not. Do you get Iranians coming up to you and telling you what you should be talking about?
MJ: I haven't had too much of the negative. The only times I've had any negative comments is usually from people who haven't seen the show. They've just heard a little bit about it. I did a thing on Premium Blend for Comedy Central and the set started out with, "Hi, I'm Maz Jobrani. I'm an American citizen. I grew up in America but I was born in Iran." And then I go on to do my set and I make fun of some things, like people look at me the way they look at me, etc. But all Comedy Central put on their website was that clip. So some Iranian out of England tracked that clip down and he e-mailed me going, "I see you say you're a citizen BUT you were born in Iran. I hope you don't go on to disparage Iran in your material." And I'm like, "Idiot, see the whole thing, see what I stand for." I'm one of the first Iranians, or Middle Easterners, for that matter, to go on stage and talk about my ethnicity openly. For the longest time a lot of Middle Easterners would use other names that sound more gentrified. Is that the right word? Gentrified? But you know what I'm saying. And here I am standing up going, "We're good people." If they don't get the message, I'm not going to get into a debate with them. I'm just going to say you're not seeing what I'm trying to say.

GM: You have a message in your comedy, but there's this bigger, more subtle message that you are, and Iranians are, just like anyone else in the west.
MJ: Absolutely. The call we're supposed to have this morning is me and these two guys, Spike Feresten, who's got Talk Show with Spike Feresten on Fox, and this other guy, Chuck Martin, who was a writer on Arrested Development. We've actually pitched and sold a script to CBS about an Iranian living in L.A. who's American but of Iranian descent. The whole gist of it is it's me basically, as you just said, as a regular guy living my life trying to avoid problems and the world is seeing me in a certain way so I end up getting in these situations. But it's exactly as you just said. It's just to show I'm just trying to live my life and, as Al Pacino says in Godfather 3, they keep pulling me back in. It's kind of an Everybody Loves Raymond meets All In The Family.

GM: You do lots of acting. I see that some of the roles are the Arab stereotypes but not all of them.
MJ: Yeah, absolutely. I was just talking to someone about this. First of all, I've told my agents, "No more terrorist parts." I've stopped taking those auditions. On Nights of Prosperity I played an Indian cab driver. I don't mind playing that. Or a doughnut shop owner. Because I know these people. When I go to New York I see these people. And here in L.A. you see these people. But the terrorist thing is so negative to me I've said no more. And then you get parts like in The Interpreter where I was playing a secret service agent who just happens to be Middle Eastern and they don't even talk about it except for one scene where the guy says, "I'm on the bus with Mohammed." Throughout the rest of the film they call me Mo. So I want to do more parts like that. I was talking to someone about this. I just want to, like, rob a bank once and just rob it with a gun. Nothing to do with my ethnicity. Which actually happened on Malcolm in the Middle, where I got to rob a store and it's just me talking like this.

GM: So there is hope in Hollywood.
MJ: Definitely. Part of it is just about you kind of maturing in Hollywood and realizing you don't have to take every role. And also for me as a standup it really helps because I'll work with or without the TV show and parts. And the other thing is I'm realizing that the best thing to do is to write your own vehicles. That's really a key that I've learned as well. Define yourself, basically. Don't let them define you.

GM: This show you're doing here with Reza Peyk, do you know much about him?
MJ: He's a nice guy. He's very enthusiastic. He got in touch with me and said he wanted to do this and I said sure. So next thing I know he puts the tickets for sale and it sells out. And I'm like, "Oh wow." So I guess there's a demand. So we added a second show. For me, too, as I do more and more shows, I try as much as I can to give other young comics an opportunity. Obviously I'm leaning towards giving young Middle Easterners a chance to get in front of big audiences. But any young comic. I'm trying to bring other strong comics that are buddies of mine that aren't Iranian, I'm trying to bring them to the shows and expose them to the Middle Eastern audiences, as well... I've gotten great support, knock on wood. I've been to Australia and 1800 people showed up. A big part of it is YouTube. People see this stuff on YouTube. And also the fact that there's a void. There's not a lot of people out there doing this. So I think the community's hungry for it and I think other people that see the world in a different frame are ready for it.

GM: So it's not just geared to other Middle Easterners.
MJ: No, no. I want as many Canadians to come out, I want as many Australians, Americans. And they do. When we were doing the Axis of Evil tour, at a certain point it was like 50 percent white and 50 percent Middle Eastern. But I want as much as I can. I want it to cross over. Because there's a lot of people, I call them the NPR crowd, who want to see what this other voice is. Again, there's been a hunger for it. Timing-wise, it's serendipity. I'm at the right place at the right time.

GM: And there aren't many other Iranian comics.
MJ: Not that many. The only other guy who's at a high level is Omid Jahlili and there's a handful of these young guys like Reza Peyk and a few other guys down here in L.A. that are coming up. But it's great to see. They're hustling and working hard and they're worth supporting.

GM: You're blazing a trail.
MJ: Trying, my man, trying!

Mike Bullard interview

Mike Bullard – February 12, 2008

"You don't want to sit on [the internet] all day because there are some people on there who you've never met and you're surprised at how much they hate your guts." – Mike Bullard

Guy MacPherson: I'm a big fan of yours. Or was, when I could see you every night.
Mike Bullard: Thanks, man. Thanks a lot. It's nice to hear from a British Columbian.

GM: You don't often?
MB: No, I do. BC's always been good to me.

GM: What have you been up to?
MB: I've been doing a lot of corporate stuff. I was at XM but as you know they're broke.

GM: How was that experience? I don't have satellite radio so I couldn't hear it.
MB: I love radio.

GM: Yeah?
MB: Yeah, I really love radio. That's where I think I want to wind up.

GM: Was that your first experience with it?
MB: Yeah. I've always loved guesting on shows.

GM: What do you love about it?
MB: The immediacy of it. There's none of this, "Hey, let's write this, let's go over it 25 times, and put it on the show tomorrow." It's right there and now.

GM: You were on every day for, what, three hours?
MB: Yeah, every day for three hours.

GM: That's a lot. But I guess it's right up your alley because you're a spur of the moment guy.
MB: Yeah, a lot of spontaneity. And I was with Lawrence Morgenstern and Judy Croon, and they're both great.

GM: You've been with Lawrence for a long time, haven't you?
MB: Lawrence was a writer on the [TV] show, yeah. I've known Lawrence for 25 years. You must know him, too, right?

GM: Not personally, but I certainly am familiar with his work.
MB: He loves it, too, so we're going to get back into it somehow, some way.

GM: On satellite radio, there are no language restrictions, are there?
MB: If you're a caller, you didn't get cut off. (laughs) The only effect it had on me was if you were a caller you could swear all you want and you didn't get bleeped.

GM: So you could take the show to a commercial station.
MB: Terrestrial, yeah. That's what I want to do.

GM: Was it a shock when your TV show was cancelled?
MB: Uh... no, I felt it coming. I wasn't exactly impressed by the fact I was on for six weeks, but...

GM: Yeah, you had just signed with Global.
MB: Yeah. I can't get into that. You know what? I was disappointed, let's put it that way. I still have 50 people a day walking up to me, which is gratifying as hell but I wish we were still doing it, you know?

GM: Was it that you left CTV or were they going with The Daily Show?
MB: I left. No matter what you hear, I left.

GM: I didn't hear anything, that's why I'm asking.
MB: Okay. Well, I heard otherwise. No, my contract was up and I thought, "You know what? I'm going to try some place else and see what happens." But I could have gone back, I think. Well, I know I could have gone back. Do I wish I had? Many times. But you know what? I don't look back, right? I try to look forward. And then about a year ago I started doing clubs and theatres and stuff again and I'm having a really good time doing it.

GM: The special you did, which I think was before your TV show...
MB: Oh yeah, that was way back. That was in '96.

GM: That's one of the best Comics! specials they've ever done. It was great.
MB: Really?

GM: Yeah.
MB: Thanks, man. That was at the Opera House in Toronto.

GM: I have it on video.
MB: Do you really?!

GM: Sure.
MB: Wow. Well, that's still what I'm doing. That stuff is all spontaneity and dealing with the audience. And that's what I'm still doing. I guess it's weird. There's not many people that do it. I was out in Edmonton and Calgary a couple of weeks ago and Jesus, the internet buzz was unbelievable. Well, you know what? When I started doing the show, and even when I left the show, the internet was kind of in its infancy that way, right? It's kind of weird now, the immediacy of feedback. Then again, you don't want to sit on that thing all day, either because (laughs) there are some people on there who you've never met and you're surprised at how much they hate your guts.

GM: Exactly! Everybody's a hater on the internet.
MB: I don't know why that is. But it doesn't matter who you are, either. I saw something negative about Dennis Leary a couple of weeks ago and I went, "Jesus, what's your bone to pick with that guy? Rescue Me's a great show, he's a great standup." You just never know with people.

GM: Everyone's got an opinion and they want to share it with the world.
MB: Yeah, exactly! (laughs) And sadly they can.

GM: You had a lot of diehard fans and a lot of detractors.
MB: Everybody has that, though, you know? You know who else has that? Letterman. Leno has it, Letterman has it.

GM: Did it ever get to you? Or do you just accept it as part of the business?
MB: You accept it. The detractors, you never get to meet them. (laughs) If you know what I mean. You never meet them in the flesh. The diehards, you do meet in the flesh. So you just go with the ones you meet in the flesh. You can't believe anything good or bad you read about yourself, you know what I mean? That's the old story, but it's true. The best thing you can do is try to get yourself a nondescript car and never give anybody the finger no matter what they do to you on the road. Because if they know who you are, it'll be on the internet in five minutes.

"It kind of makes me sad because there's never room for one [talk show] in Canada yet there's room for four in the U.S." – Mike Bullard

GM: Are you surprised that Canada doesn't have a late-night talk show anymore?
MB: We've got George Strombolopoulis.

GM: Does that count?
MB: It's not comedic, that's for sure. It's not done the traditional way, the way I did it, that's true. I like George, though. He's a good guy. But no, it's not surprising because there are costs involved. And I never got any government money. I see all this stuff going on with Jim Shaw wanting to pull out of the Canadian television fund. I never got any of the CTF money or any tax credit anyway. And I look at it and I go it costs a lot of money to put those shows on. And you're competing against American juggernauts that are cash cows. That's the trouble. The first thing I ever said when we did the show is they better figure out a way to make this thing revenue enhancing.

GM: And did they?
MB: No, because after 11, there's not a lot of ad revenue in Canada, right? It's not like the U.S. where after 11 there's still a ton of ad revenue. Some people use the 10 times rule when they're talking about the U.S. versus Canada. But a friend of mine said, when it comes to consumers and viewership, it's more like 25 times. Americans are huge consumers. Way more than we are. I don't know. It's just a weird thing the way they do it. They're just different consumers than we are. And the bottom line is it kind of makes me sad because there's never room for one in Canada yet there's room for four in the U.S.

GM: When I stumbled across your show back when you were in the Wayne Gretzky restaurant...
MB: If I had one wish it would be that we stayed there. I wish we'd stayed there forever. I liked it. The place seated 100 people. It was small and didn't pretend to be something it wasn't. And that's the way I wanted to keep it.

GM: And you didn't pretend to be something you weren't, either, which I really liked.
MB: No. I'm glad to hear you say that because that's really important to me. To me it's about being a regular guy and making a connection with people and trying to live your life like a regular guy.

GM: And also as a fellow non-hockey fan, I appreciate the fact that you admitted that publicly.
MB: (laughs) You never saw me getting bent out of shape over the Detroit-Toronto rivalry, that's for sure.

GM: Hockey fans are amazing. They'll hold that against you, won't they?
MB: You know what? I had to read Hockey For Dummies. Somebody went and got it and gave it to me and said, "Listen, you better read this because you're getting letters that should be reserved for child molesters because of the fact that you don't know anything about hockey."

GM: Yeah. How Canadian can you be?!
MB: Yeah, people would get incensed about it. We had hockey players on and they would look at me like I was from Mars. I'll never forget the time Tai Domi was on. I asked him what position he played. That was probably my Larry King moment, when you ask questions you shouldn't ask, not necessarily questions that no one else asks. That's when I went downstairs and somebody on staff had gotten me that book and it was sitting on the table.

GM: Do you have those regrets where you go, "Oh, geez, I shouldn't have asked that."
MB: No. I have moments I'm glad I had, like when Julian Lennon was on I asked him who his favourite Beatle was. The best moment for me was when we had Ricky Martin on. That was my favourite moment of all time. They said under no circumstances am I to ask him any questions about his sexual preference. I guess he'd had a couple of tense moments with other people. So he sits down and we do the interview (chuckles) and it's going really well and we're almost at the end. And his manager's standing at the producer's table. And I go, "Listen, Ricky, I don't want to pry, but I gotta tell you I'd be remiss in my duties if I didn't ask you this question." And you could just see the colour go right out of his face. And I could hear his manager at the producer's table going, "What the fuck is this?" I said, "But if I don't ask you this question I really won't be able to look in the mirror tomorrow morning." And he stutters and stammers and goes, "W-w-what is it?" And I go, "Are you Spanish or Puerto Rican?" You could just see the colour come back into his face right there. It was incredible.

GM: (laughs) You were making him sweat. Did he say anything after?
MB: He shook my hand and the manager came over and wagged his finger at me. Then they walked out. That was it. Believe it or not I didn't join these people for smart cocktails after. The bigger the star, the quicker I knew they were going to get the hell out of there.

GM: But they enjoyed coming on, didn't they?
MB: Michael Moore came on. But the turn-the-corner moments for me were when Dennis Leary came on and when the prime minister was on. That, to me, was probably the biggest night we ever had.

GM: Cretien.
MB: He was actually sitting in office and he came on. And that was probably one of my favourites, too.

GM: One of my favourites was Lawrence Morgenstern as Santa Claus with Scott Thompson.
MB: I used to love that when he'd come on as the Yiddish Santa. I loved that every Christmas when he did that. He really loved doing that stuff. That was my favourite time when he'd come out and do that because he'd go into that and he just wouldn't come out of it. And when the kids were phoning in, that to me was the most fun. I loved stuff like that.

GM: There should be a DVD of highlights of your show.
MB: Why don't you say that in the article? People walk up to me and ask me that all the time: "How come you haven't done a Best Of DVD?"

GM: What were the years you were at CTV?
MB: 1997 and I was finished in 2004.

GM: Especially now, every show ever has a DVD.
MB: I know, I know.

GM: It would have been good.
MB: Hey, man, if you want to print that and tell people to write letters, go ahead! (laughs)

GM: You had some heat from the States at one time, didn't you?
MB: Yup.

GM: What happened there?
MB: Merv Griffin's company. I don't know. Nothing ever came of it. I don't know what it was. It never got past the point of... Actually, I'm not the one who even got to talk to them. You'd have to ask other people.

GM: You and Pat are probably the only brothers who have hosted talk shows.
MB: Yup, I think so. Actually, I do believe that. You're probably right. He's got a show coming on ABC March 2nd.

GM: What kind of show?
MB: It's Nest Egg. I can't really give you what it's all about but it's pretty funny. It's about married couples. Sort of like a remake of Johnny Carson's show Who Do You Trust?

GM: So a game show.
MB: Yeah, it's a game but from what he told me about it, it sounds pretty funny. Like how much you trust your wife, how much you trust your husband. And it's not just monogamy; it's about a million and one other things. Like, they blindfolded a guy and put him in a car and he had to trust his wife to tell him where to turn and what to do and all that jazz. And I think the prize at stake was like ten grand for that one thing. I think that's on the first one. He says it's pretty funny what these guys did. It was him and Greg Fitzsimmons on the show. He's a great comic. He was a writer on Ellen DeGeneres's show. So Greg Fitzsimmons has something to do with it, too.

GM: Who's older, you or Pat?
MB: Me, by seventeen months.

GM: You worked for the phone company almost right up to the point where you got your show, right?
MB: Till eight weeks before it went on the air, yeah.

GM: That's amazing. So you could always go back there.
MB: (chuckles) Yeah. I was there for twenty years. I was doing standup at night and working at Bell during the day. Nobody in showbiz world knew that I even had a job. It was kind of interesting.

GM: How did you get the show? Did you audition? Or was it your idea for the show that got picked up?
MB: I did a golf tournament and Doug Bassett, the owner of Baton and CTV – he owned all of that, and CFTO; basically the owner of CTV – he was there. He walked up to me after and he goes, "Geez, that was really good. You ever thought of doing TV?" I go, "I really want to do a talk show." He goes, "I tell you, if we get the comedy license, I'll have Yvonne call you." So they were true to their word. Then I did the special that you talked about and it went from there. I was on the air, I guess, six months after that.

GM: That's fast.
MB: It was fast by this country's standards, yeah. Really fast.

GM: Who went into comedy first, you or Pat?
MB: My brother. He left and went to L.A. then I said I'm gonna start doing this myself. So I just started doing amateur night in '88.

GM: Did you ever do a standard act with material?
MB: Yeah, probably. I can't even remember what it was. I probably had jokes that I got up there and did. And then when I started emceeing, I just stopped doing joke jokes. I just stopped doing bits and started talking to people. And I remember thinking this is probably a good way to go for me because I feel really comfortable. And then I read an interview with David Letterman in Rolling Stone and I thought, "I knew it! This is the way to get a talk show." Letterman never headlined; he always hosted at the Comedy Store. He was always the emcee. And he said that's where he learned how to do a talk show. And I thought I gotta be on the right track here. Because I love Letterman. I love Letterman.

GM: I wonder if he ever saw your show.
MB: I used to hear rumours that he had, but I don't know if that's a fact or not. The same lady who booked his show, we used her company to book ours for about two years. I don't know if he ever saw it or not but she was a great lady. She booked all our guests. That was the best time because we either had some of his guests before he had them or after he had them. Toronto and New York aren't that far apart.

GM: Did they ever use your show as a testing ground for new guests to see how they'd do?
MB: We had a lot of comics come up from New York who wanted to try our show first. And then you'd see them a couple of weeks later on Letterman. She booked a lot of New York comics on the show. That's how I met Greg Fitzsimmons. He was on our show then two weeks later I saw him on Letterman.

GM: And you had Mitch Hedberg on.
MB: Yeah, probably one of the first TV shots he ever had, I think.

GM: And Wendy Crewson was laughing hysterically.
MB: Yeah, she was great. I think she was on seven times.

"I guess I've never lost a brain cell through drugs or booze because I never drank or anything. ... But on the down side, I'm up all night with sparks going off in my head. That makes me wish I had had a drink once in a while." – Mike Bullard

GM: You guys had a real rapport.
MB: Oh, yeah, I loved Wendy Crewson. I loved her. She was just fantastic. I used to make fun of her all the time for being the wife or the girlfriend. That was all she ever played, right? She had a great sense of humour about it.

GM: You have a great memory when you work the crowd. Was that something you had to develop or has it always been sharp?
MB: Everybody asks me that. I don't know what it is. I guess I've never lost a brain cell through drugs or booze because I never drank or anything. So I don't know if that's the reason or not. People ask me that. Funny you say that because somebody just asked me that when I was getting gas this morning. They said, "How do you remember so much stuff?" I said, "I don't know. But on the down side, I'm up all night with sparks going off in my head." That makes me wish I had had a drink once in a while.

GM: Was your comedy hero Don Rickles?
MB: When I was a kid, yeah. Don Rickles and Johnny Carson. Yeah, but I loved Don Rickles when I was a kid. I used to love Carson when he was on. Then when I was older I really loved Garry Shandling. I drove all the way to Atlantic City just to see him and came back the same night.

GM: One of my favourite shows was It's Garry Shandling's Show.
MB: That was a really, really funny show and a real tribute to Jack Benny. It reminded me of The Jack Benny Show. I loved Larry Sanders, too, but I really loved It's Garry Shandling's Show.

GM: Have you checked openmike.com lately?
MB: No, what's there?

GM: It's a Dutch site.
MB: Oh, really? Okay. That's funny. I guess they didn't hang on to it.

GM: You have a website under construction.
MB: Yeah, hopefully this guy's going to get it together soon. (laughs) But I've been remiss, too. I gotta go in and get head shots done. Because if you don't have a website, man, you're missing out on work.

GM: You and Derrick Edwards.
MB: Derrick Edwards doesn't have one?! Well, you can't be in better company.

GM: Some people are afraid you're going to pick on them. I remember that woman in the audience of your special who wouldn't say a word and it drove you nuts.
MB: Yeah, but that was on TV. They're different when you're not on TV. When you're in the clubs, everyone wants to talk to you. It's good that way. I haven't seen this club. I haven't been there. It's a new one. I heard it's beautiful.

GM: It's very nice. What can we expect from your show? An hour of you making fun of us?
MB: Sure. High energy, lots of spontaneity, and a good time had by me, too.

Ron James interview

I just noticed I have a bunch of interviews in the bank that I've never uploaded. Most of my phone interviews for the paper are transcribed and housed over at the Comedy Couch. And that's where this one will go, too. But as I get caught up, I figured I'd also run them here.

This first one is from a couple years ago with Ron James. You may notice lots of square brackets and dots. That's because my digital recorder was on the fritz and I was losing a couple seconds here and there. But not much. There's still lots here from the always spirited and interesting comic.

Ron James – February 28, 2008

"I know now for a fact that improv can't hold a candle to doing standup. It's not the same buzz, it just isn't. It feels infantile to me at times. When you see guys who do it really well, great. But improv needs a rewrite." – Ron James

Guy MacPherson: Is there a certain amount of time you like to wait before hitting a city again?
Ron James: Yeah, usually 18 months to two years. It's like sensible forestry practices, you know. You don't want to go in and clear cut. You want to leave a few trees for when you go back next time. Pardon the logging metaphor. I alway try to touch on some kind of icon for whatever region I'm playing.

GM: You're always quick with the analogy or metaphor.
RJ: That's been the boon of these tours, right? Being able to embrace the mystery of people and place clear across the big wide open and try to find my comedic mileage and what makes each region tick.

GM: You'll do the BC stuff in other regions, won't you?
RJ: Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. From time to time I'll do that. The further east you get, the less folks... Because Canada is defined by its regions, right? But there's a universality to British Columbia, of course, across the country. The Rockies, the Super Natural element. I think that's what resonated for the public with the last special. There was so much emphasis placed on recreation and nature and the ramifications of a changing planet. And BC's pretty enlightened when it comes to that. And it just so happened that that was an element of the zeitgeist that was finding its resonance for the public at that time. So it was good timing.

GM: When you say 18 months to two years, you stagger these out, obviously, so you're not just sitting at home between tours.
RJ: Oh, yeah. No, there's no such thing as sitting at home. I come into the office every day and work. I try to write my special in the summer time after I've been on tour. It's like a journalist in the field. I keep a notepad with me and I'll write new material in my tours and compile them and give it a run on its legs to see how it plays. It's all in its infant stages right then. There's a long gestation period actually for some material. And then some material literally goes right from the page to the stage. I mean this last one I did back home, that I shot in Halifax in October, because I didn't tour ahead of time, ... you open up with 68 or 72 pages in your head hoping you don't blank.

GM: I was wondering about that. A stage actor will sometimes forget a line or just blank.
RJ: Oh, Christ, yeah. But that makes it exciting, too. I like there to be an element of danger in a show so that the audience isn't quite sure where we're going yet at the same time there's a confidence that they invest in you for the entirety of the ride. But for the most part, I labour over [individual words] and things like that. I do write my material. Particularly those passages that need that rhythm. A comedian finds his style over time.

I love the way words paint that picture. I like words that trip off the tongue and tickle the ear as well as the funny bone. I like an audience to get a bit more bang for their buck than just a laugh.

GM: I guess your background in improv helps you if you ever draw a blank.
RJ: Yeah, the years at Second City I suppose gave me stage skills but I'd never be presumptuous enough to... And I know now for a fact that improv can't hold a candle to doing standup. It's not the same buzz, it just isn't. It feels infantile to me at times. When you see guys who do it really well, great. But improv needs a rewrite.

What I discovered with the tribe of standups is that everybody has had this crucible of fire by themselves and there's not a standup on his pins today who hasn't gone through the trenches of amateur night and from there playing different rooms out there by themselves. My brothers and sisters in the standup legions have my utmost respect. But the equation is refreshingly forthright. In a day when the world is increasingly complex and fractured, the equation for standup comedy is simple: get laughs or get off. Then I think you have to set your standards as to what you're getting your laughs with.

I think in deference to the old days of improv and stuff with Second City, there was always a standard there. That name was evocative of a strong tradition of quality. You always had a director telling you, "Don't put that in a scene" or "Take that out". So I was always aware of the process of editing and honing it down to the kernel of the joke. But what's refreshing about standup, which has been my meal ticket for the last 15 years almost, is you don't have to filter your comedic point of view through five other people. There's no safety net. It's just you and the audience and the primal hum. It's just you and the paying public and the visceral hit of the evening. For those 90 minutes to two hours you're on that stage, you're given the opportunity to make sense of the chaos we're all walking through. The plumber and the professor sitting side by side can be laughing at different things in the same joke. Without getting too maudlin about the reward, it's religion of the funny bone. [People come] from different walks of life and genders and money and socio-economic standing and all those things and they're all laughing. What is it about my grandmother wearing a hat that still had the fox head on it when I went to church with her in 1968? Why does that resonate for people? What do people feel about the mystery and the mythology of the country through the seasons?

These are things that are in my set and for some reason or other they resonate and it's as much of a mystery to me as anything. [As soon as] you think you've got it figured out, you're fucked. I think you always have to come to the work with a humility. And that's married to the confidence of the delivery, of course.

GM: Can you comment on the world more in standup than improv?
RJ: I suppose. Improv's great training to make you think on your feet but at the end of the day I want my work to last. There's a longevity to a joke. There's a shelf life to a certain perspective on things that will stay forever, and that's a good feeling. It's alchemy, too, isn't it? I mean, where does it come from? Where do you haul it from? You just go [to your desk in the morning] and you're contracted to write a 90-minute show that's gotta be funny. Where are you going to haul that from? And you do. It just comes from following your bliss and trying to marshal some kind of cynicism into that stew. It eventually finds its legs over time and becomes a comedic point of view, whether it's on people or place or whether it's on growing up, the future or Canadian politics or anything. But my show isn't heavy politically, I wouldn't say. I like to have a pretty eclectic buffet. I like there to be a lot of choice in there over the 90 minutes.

GM: You put in the work. You talk about going to the office every day. Are you like some people – okay, me – who sit around until the deadline nears?
RJ: Listen, man, there's lots to be said for deadlines. Holy geez! That's the whole thing, you know? If the Normandy invasion were up to me, we'd be working the kinks out of it right at the 11th hour. But yeah, there's lots to be said for deadlines. But you gotta come in every day, though. It's a job, right? You gotta do the grunt work. I mean, the performance is the boon. That's what's fun.

GM: I think some comics forget the grunt work and just want the glory.
RJ: Well, I can't speak for how other guys decide to build their material ... but I've got a responsibility. If somebody's paying 42 bucks for a ticket – and the tickets didn't start at that price; we were able to build up to that level. But if somebody's made the effort to buy my ticket and to actually leave the house when there's so much entertainment that can keep them right there in the media room, and to call some friends and maybe have a meal or something, you've got a responsibility to make sure that they leave having had an authentic experience. Because so much is driven by hype. How often have you gone to something that's been driven by hype, with certain pop culture notoriety? I want people to feel they've had a good time and heard a different perspective on things.

"I like to get that roll and pitch. I really like to take the car out on the highway for a spin." – Ron James

GM: I was talking to Irwin Barker recently.
RJ: Oh, my goodness! What a great guy. He's a warrior, man, and a really funny cat.

GM: He was talking about his writing process. He will sit down and actually research a topic and write an essay – not even funny – before he can start paring away and editing and looking for the humour.
RJ: That's really interesting. And it parallels the approach to my specials. Quest for the West was about Alberta and Saskatchewan. I spent four months researching those provinces. I had toured them so I got a feel. I felt the heartline hum of region beneath my wheels and felt that November wind come rolling over the plateau. And I was up at Fort McMurray. And the same with BC. I travelled through the Kootenays in the spring when everything was exploding in this scream of green. I was down there in funky Nelson town or Qualicum Beach, where, to the left of me, there was this ancient couple, a pair of Methuselas, sitting on a park bench necking, and I said to myself, "Geez, it's nice it still goes on but we don't have to see it." From the proletariat's perspective ... the windshield or on your feet or smelling the smells and hearing the sounds where you're travelling.

And then the next level is as you said Irwin approaches it. You write, you research, and you find the spine of the story. You can't not do enough research. The more you know, the more you have to choose from. You really need to have more on your plate than you're going to use because not all of it is going to be golden, you know? But once you're on your pins, you have to sell that baby so you better have your convictions and beliefs down pat.

GM: You're both very thorough comics. A lot of comics today have a great premise, one punchline, then they're on to something else. And you go, "Wha--? That's it?"
RJ: You have to trust your instincts in that regard. You'll have a piece and there's that little voice inside your head that's alawys saying, "No, no, no". You have to know your audience. You never want somebody walking away feeling just exactly what you said, Guy. They have to know that they got the full buffet. That's the rule.

GM: Not to stay with Irwin, but another analogy of his that I love is that when a regular person loses their keys, once they find them they stop looking. But a comic's job is to keep looking even after he's found them. Keep looking for different angles. You don't just stop after finding the first punchline.
RJ: I guess we're analytical by nature. It's chaos. Comedy comes from chaos for me. That's where I find my mileage, just hoping to get the sun in your face and the wind at your back and somewhere in this victory of baby steps, in our march through life's bright fury, we're hoping to have an easy day. We're hoping there'll be some small victories along the way. And I guess that process from A to B, for me, anyway, is where the funny lands, whether I'm over my head at Future Shop staring at a bank of television sets realizing that I've got 50 years on Planet Earth and three years of university and every frigging book in my house is for dummies. I look at big subjects and I try to put the average person's spin on it, I guess. It's just the journey of the everyman, which is the journey we're all on, just to follow our bliss and hope that you reap a few boons at the end of a working day.

But anger fuels the funny, too. You gotta be pissed off a little bit, you know?

GM: Do you have to really care about a topic or do you just have to understand that they make for good comedic subjects?
RJ: That's a great question. It's six of one, half a dozen of the other. Not everything is going to be a sermon driven by piss and vinegar. You have to have a balance of all kinds of topics in your set and some observations are just light comedic observations. I've got a bit of a rant on Afghanistan and Iraq ... and I needed to care about it, you know? So it all depends on the kind of subject that you're wrapping your head around.

GM: Have you been to Afghanistan?
RJ: No, I haven't. I have not been over that way. I did one of those tours once and we ended up at the North Pole several years ago. North Pole in November. Canadian show biz dream. But that was 15 years ago. Mostly what I've concentrated on is trying to maintain a product standard over the last 9 years touring the country in the soft seaters. I shoot for new material each time I come out. You don't find that under a rock.

GM: You also don't find too many comics who perform for as long on stage as you do. How long are you up there?
RJ: Ninety minutes to two hours. I think a hundred is fine. I had been going two when I first [started these tours] but I find the audience peaks a little bit at two hours. Plus, too, I need a pee. I'm 50, man. But I usually find that about 100 minutes is good. But I don't like to take a break. I had an opener for the first little bit when I started but then I realized that I had enough to drive the 90-minute show myself, so why not?

GM: I saw Mike Bullard last week. He does 35 minutes.
RJ: Where? At a club?

GM: Yeah.
RJ: Well, just because we're all in the same medium we don't all work in the same fashion. Just like music is different all over. There's different genres and styles and everything. I think it's the same with standup. It all boils down to what you want to get out of it. What do you want it to be? It's respect. And the audience that pays to see it deserves some, too. But that doesn't mean that you have to pander. I mean, I think you gotta strike a balance between artistic need and audience expectation. But 35 minutes, eh? Wow. To each his own.

I like to get that roll and pitch. I really like to take the car out on the highway for a spin. And plus, too, I think the audience likes to see a little bit of "best-of" stuff. And you need some time to really let the new stuff breathe, as well. And sometimes it's not quite as tight as it will be over time. It needs to find its legs. The show that I'm doing, you have to know where you're going. I like to take a compass read first before I take a tangent. Then you take a tangent off and you can always come back to your place of origin. But it's always good to know where you're going. I think most comedians have that [centre] You want to make sure what's coming next or what you're opening with or what you're closing with.

"That's why this eight-minute set on Letterman or Leno and all that stuff, Jesus, I'm not interested. If that's what it takes in order to validate me, then I'm fucked. Because it takes me that long to set up a preposition." – Ron James

GM: Oh, I don't like it when a comic takes a tangent and then forgets to come back to his original point. But you always find your way back.
RJ: The full circle. You have to do that. ... To punctuate a narrative with character stuff, too. I've been having a lot of fun with that lately, you know? So if there's any sort of tangential stuff I'll usually milk a beat a little bit like that and allow myself to go out on a thinner limb. The character stuff is fun. [It's not like I] sit down on a chair and do five minutes as a character or anything; it's just to punctuate it. I think you have to have the narratives so the audience knows what you're talking about and within that narrative it's gotta be punctuated consistently with laughs.

GM: Do you have to fight being the curmudgeon who thinks everything was better in his day? Like we all do?
RJ: A little bit. How old are you?

GM: Forty-five.
RJ: Yeah. I'm 50. I think there's a certain nostalgia among Baby Boomers, you know? But I'm trying to be aware of that. I think my 19-year-old daughter is a helluva lot more enlightened than I was at 19. She's not stumbling around a university frat house with an empty bucket of purple Jesus on her head doing hot knives. As far as I know. But I think there's a focus today that may not have existed a long time ago. Then again, Christ, you're 22 and immortal in 1980, what are you gonna do but have fun? But I try not to have that as a mandate of my set. God forbid that that's the theme that people walk away with: "He's just become a cranky old bastard."

I saw Carlin in Las Vegas about six years ago and he was fairly strident and I don't think the audience got the kind of show that they paid the 70 bucks for. But if I talk about stuff... like how I've worked since I was 12 years old. So there's always comparisons between today and yesterday, I guess. Like, I asked my kids to rake up a few leaves in the back yard when I went on tour in November and Christ, there was a pause you could march a Russian army through, you know? I said just rake up a few leaves. My reward for helping dad clean up the back yard when I was a kid was to stay an extra 45 minutes at the Halifax dump shooting rats in the head with my pellet gun.

GM: Fun.
RJ: It was good fun, man! And here I am listening to Sean Penn read Dylan's Chronicles in the truck. These are things everybody did in Wisconsin: went to the dump and shot rats. I thought, "Yeah! Alright." I can't play the guitar to save my life, but Dylan shot rats. But I guess it's the absurdity of it. I'm not trying to advocate rodent killing as a pastime for my girls, but you can't help but look there. It's the intention, right? What are you trying to say with it? What's the point? What's going to resonate for them?

GM: When we were younger and older people would say such things to us, we'd think they're just old. And I'm sure your daughters and my son will say the same thing when they're older about the younger generation.
RJ: Sure. My dad would tell me they used to get up at five o'clock to sell mackarels before he did his paper route. And you know what I used to do? I used to play a violin in front of him. I'd pretend I was playing a violin: "Oh, tell me another one." But I think that's one of the themes of the show, though: the past, the present and the future; where you're from, where you are and where you're going. That's life, though, isn't it, Guy? To put the whole picture into perspective. You have to draw from somewhere.

I think I said it to you earlier, where does the material come from? It's alchemy. You're pulling gold from straw. And all the comedians who step up on stage and deliver it, in order for it to be successful, I think there's got to be some investment of the heart line in there. At least for me that's what worked. And I find that the stuff that really does have shelf life, that really consistently has legs, is stuff that has a personal anecdote that universality of content. Political jokes are gone in six months, aren't they?

GM: Unless they get elected in.
RJ: Yeah. ... You can hang your hat on some archetypical things. I try to, anyway, with politicians. That they're the same guys in different ties. Glad-handing political opportunists with a pathological pursuit of power who as soon as they [get elected] don't give a rat's ass about the people that gave it to them in the first place. And I think it's important for a comedian not to be a member of the country club, too. I'd never want to be in a room filled with people I make fun of for a living. I think you've got to be cautious about that. I think it's our job to always be observers. You always want to be standing on the porch looking in. I don't want to be the guy inside with the alligator on my shirt, for Christ sake. I want to be with the misfaced boy and the bearded lady on the front porch.

GM: You've got to stay real.
RJ: But it's hard, though, isn't it, when we're all carrying this Sisyphean lump of fuck called the bourgeous dream? I mean, all of us are in the same game, aren't we? You want a nice south-facing window in the house or ... you want the media room. Jesus, it's not good enough to have a TV anymore, you've got the fucking media room. You've got all the accoutrements of comfort you could possibly want. [His other phone rings in the background.] I'm enjoying talking to you. The Cowichan Times can fucking relax. They're late phoning me. I'm gonna turn it off, actually.

GM: Turn it off. It's just Cowichan.
RJ: I just did an interview and they said, "What have you heard of Abbotsford?" I said, "Geez, you don't want to know."

GM: Were you Catholic? Or are you?
RJ: No, I was Anglican but I grew up with Catholics.

GM: I was wondering because when you get into one of your long, wordy passages it sounds like a priest singing.
RJ: Isn't that interesting?

GM: You know, they get on that one note.
RJ: (big laugh) They get on that one note! That's funny, man. Well, isn't that interesting. No, High Anglican. I mean, I was as close to Catholic as you could get without having any saints to pray to when I was on the high diving board at the Halifax Centennial Pool. Your Catholics could call up a host of saints, couldn't they? There was any friggin' saint for a bow-legged, luminescent 45-pound red-headed kid scared shitless at the top platform.

But my wife, I tell ya, her mother is Roman Catholic. And I'm not shittin' you, man, I lost my car keys for three friggin' days and she said, "I'll talk to Mom and she'll say a prayer to Saint Anthony." There's a fella who's not sleeping on the job, buddy. They fell on my head when I was sleeping. But they showed up! So I don't like to mess with that spookiness they got going on there.

Look, I came from a Celtic culture, right? I was raised with one television station. I don't want to go into the whole nostalgic thing and stuff, but it was a black and white TV and for the most part I was surrounded by people who would never shut up. They just talked. I mean, it wasn't a fiddle-playing kitchen but people could tell a story. Oh, jeez, they could tell a story. It was holy. And you listened. And you respected it. These things stayed with me.

I really admired Billy Crystal's standup and the way he called up that soul line of all the people he knew from that club his father ran in the '50s. Was it a club or a record store he ran or something, where all the great black musicians came and sang. ... I like Cosby's stuff. But at the same time, early Dennis Miller, too, was a real inspiration. That first album, Black & White, he did was great, before he became a avid member of the Republican party. But I saw Billy Connelly. We drove to Hamilton to see Billy Connelly in Copps Coliseum. The 65-year-old Scottish wizard went for two hours and 25 minutes without a break. And it was absolutely inspired. You know, I saw him on an HBO special when I was in Los Angeles seventeen lifetimes ago. We were down there for three years. And it was an epiphany, man. I saw this cat flying across the stage and I remember watching it going, "Jesus, this is the language of my tribe." He was talking about relatives and times. There was a texture to it, you know, Guy? There was a texture. That's why this eight-minute set on Letterman or Leno and all that stuff, Jesus, I'm not interested. If that's what it takes in order to validate me, then I'm fucked. Because it takes me that long to set up a preposition. ... I like the reverence that words allow the individual to place on time.

GM: When are you going to do a book?
RJ: Well, when I find the time, buddy. I was approached there a couple of years ago by Douglas & McIntyre in Vancouver and I sent them some stuff that I'd written on the north. My kid and I had gone kayaking into the barren lands of the Teelon Game Sanctuary a couple of summers ago. That's where the holy notes singing loud and clear because space is Canada's greatest commodity. When I find the time to sit down and ... [write about] some of the wonders that have passed in front of my windshield or some of the ground I've walked, maybe in the next few years.

GM: You could even adapt your stage material because it's all written.
RJ: Yeah, it reads. That's what people say to me all the time. Thank you. I will get around to doing that. It's just first things first, you know? I wrote a pilot this year and I'm waiting to hear if I get an order.

GM: CBC?
RJ: Yep. They've been good [to me.] The last four specials have been with them. My fifth hopefully will be on Winnipeg. I'll shoot that one next year. They're the only television network in the country that's building it from the ground up, you know? I mean, Robson Arms and Corner Gas are CTV's, both with excellent actors and I'm a big fan of Brent's work, anyway.

GM: They're the same actors.
RJ: (laughs) Yeah, they are! There's a couple of the same actors. That's funny. You know, there's more actors out there.

GM: Exactly. Is the pilot a sitcom or a one-camera thing? What is it?
RJ: You know what, Guy? I just don't want to play my hand yet until the gods smile, buddy. I hope you'll respect that.

GM: I respect that.
RJ: Thank you. I'm just so damned superstitious.

GM: I'm sure there's a saint you could pray to.
RJ: (laughs) I wish there was! Saint of pilots.

GM: How do you relax? You're so busy working all the time. Do you just sit down and veg in front of the TV?
RJ: No, I can't do that. It drives me nuts. I read a lot. And I had been running a lot. I was an avid runner and then [I had a scope of my left knee] and I've been running bone on bone for like ten years. There's no cartilege in them and the miniscus is torn so I'm gonna have to start biking. But I like to get outside. I like to fish. I'm bringing my fly-fishing rod to the interior when I'm out there in May. So hopefully I'll be able to land a speckled or two without being mauled. That's one of the things about fishing in BC, you're always doing 360s.

GM: I wouldn't go out there. Not to bring it back to Irwin again, but he said his advice to young comics would be to read more.
RJ: Read. Read, read, read. It's so true. It's so true. ... It gives it time to sink in, you know? I've just never been one to pull my act from popular culture, I guess. Maybe it wouldn't hurt, but I don't know. I just find that Canadians as a whole are a literate people. They respect the rhythm of the spoken word. I mean, you've got so much more choice. If you're just watching TV shows or just watching movies or fucking around on the internet, you're just going to the same well as everybody else. And you gotta read the right stuff, too.

GM: What's the right stuff?
RJ: I think you should have a smattering of the classics. I think you should read a lot of non-fiction. I just finished the new Thomas Homer Dixon's book The Upside of Down. That was a great read. And I read that fellow from the west coast a year ago, The Disappearing Macaw, which was great. ...

GM: Some people say they read and they just buy the tabloids at the checkout counter.
RJ: I don't want to sound like I'm a snob about it, either, because you put a Stephen King book in the truck when I'm driving it on tour and it's amazing what that fellow can do with character, you know? He's prolific. And I try to read stuff that's... I sort of topped out on the war in Iraq. I was reading a lot of stuff on that. Gee whiz, three books at 400 pages each. You know what, Guy? Apparently it's all about oil.

GM: What?!
RJ: Yeah! (laughs) Oil and power. Go figure, eh?

GM: Well, Ron, I can't hog you all to myself. Others need to talk to you.
RJ: But you get it, right?

GM: I get it.
RJ: Anyone who quotes Irwin Barker as a sage has my respect. I wish I had half his low-key energy on stage.

LCS: Grand finale

You might have noticed I'm later than usual with my blog post on the big Last Comic Standing finale. And I'll continue to be late for it because I'm not going to watch. Damn Facebook ruined it for me. I guess that's what you get for having so many Facebook friends in the comedy bizness.

Maybe if one of the other five finalists had won, I would have watched, but how can I support a show that produces such winners as Felipe Esparza and Dat Phan? Clearly, this is not a program that is made for people like me. I know, I know, comedy is subjective. I'm the first person who'll tell you that, too. But there has to be some level of craft to it, doesn't there? There are plenty of comics that aren't my particular cup o' Red Rose, but I appreciate their professional abilities.

But I can't say Esparza had a professional level of competence from what we saw on TV. Now, you may counter that we don't get an accurate reflection of their act on the old flatscreen, and again, I'm the first person to tell you that, too. But that's all we, the viewers (and presumptive voters), can go by. The winner wasn't chosen by the three very funny judges (although had they offered anything more critical or constructive beyond "hilarious" and "the crowd loved you", we maybe wouldn't have arrived at the results we arrived at); he was chosen by the public. So I saw what everyone else saw. Only I didn't see it. I saw a guy with no craft; just a goofy devil-may-care persona and some half-assed jokes. That shouldn't cut it.

And making matters worse is the perception of a fix. It doesn't help that the winner was somehow affiliated with the executive producer. If an American Idol contestant were represented somehow by Simon Cowell, would it just be tossed off as, "Oh well, he's in the music biz; they're in the music biz. Of course there are going to be connections"? Absolutely not. There should be no hint of conflict of interest.

But, you counter, the viewing audience voted on the winner, not the producers. So what difference does it make? Since all along the way we were never told the breakdown in percentages of the votes each contestant received, who's to say what the actual votes were?

This all may have been on the up-and-up, but there were too many factors to suggest otherwise. At the very least, the show didn't do all it could to be as transparent as possible: not allow contestants with connections to the producers (lord knows there are enough really funny professional comedians in North America to choose from), be explicit with the process from the beginning so we all know what will happen each week, and give us the breakdown of the votes along the way (yes, they could just make up numbers but at least it would give us some confidence that they're not just pushing through whoever they want).

The show came a long way this season. They concentrated solely on stand-up; they got some very good contestants and minimized the freak shows; they brought in three very funny judges. And then they go and spoil it all by saying something stupid like Felipe Esparza is the Last Comic Standing.

Sour grapes? Maybe, I dunno. I just think he was so far worse than the other four, and many of the others who were eliminated much earlier. Each and every week I had him at or very near the bottom. As I said in an earlier post, I look forward to seeing the LCS tour if it rolls through Vancouver because I might very well like him in person and in an extended set. But that's completely different. America wasn't judging him on a longer live set; they were judging him on what we all saw – his short TV sets.

It's great for an individual comic to win this competition, but it's not good for the franchise to advance comics that aren't deserving. If he goes on tour and brings in people based on his credit and fame, and is anything less than great, these same people are going to think either the show sucks or stand-up in general sucks. How is that helping anyone? Look at Dat Phan. If he really was America's choice, that implies he received millions of votes by people who presumably thought he was really funny on the show. How's his career doing? Is he selling out large venues? And if not, why not? Because he wasn't ready to win such a big deal.

I know my argument falls apart a bit if America's votes were legit, in which case I can just say the people are usually wrong (or I'm out of step with the voting public, which I can't deny). But until they can at least offer us some hard numbers, I can't just accept the result. I wasn't a huge fan of Mike DeStefano along the way, but that guy at least has comedy chops and would have made a fine champ. And, of course, any of the other three would have, too. I grant you that Esparza was extremely likable, but I expect more than just that from a comic.

But that's just me.

Aug. 15: Watermelon (repeat)

In this sweltering heat, I'm yearning for some watermelon. You see where this is going. This is how my brain works in 30 degree weather. Watermelon, the fruit, takes me to Watermelon, the comic/nudist/pot activist/chef. She's got her own web series now called Baking a Fool of Myself, but that wasn't even a glint in her eye when she was last on the program back on November 14, 2004. Tonight, we take a trip down memory lane with a re-airing of that episode. Join us, won't you?

Correction

At last year's Statelessness of the Industry speech at the Canadian Comedy Awards, Harry Doupe lambasted comics for their exaggerated credits. A comedian finds himself at an open mic that Robin Williams drops in at and all of a sudden, said comedian now trumpets to the world that he "opened for Robin Williams". Another funnyman gets a beautifully gift-wrapped pull-quote from a local weekly and he attributes it to the Globe & Mail. Still another gets mentioned in the Straight's Best Of Vancouver issue and all of a sudden he's been voted the "best comic in Canada".

It happens all the time. My favourite is when I read a quote I had supposedly written and raved about a comic. I asked him about it and he had no qualms telling me flat out that he made it up because I'd never written anything about him. I could do nothing but laugh. I thought it was funny.

I'm not really affected by bogus claims or quotes because most of the time I know better. I'm not going to see one and think, "Oh, this person must be good" because I generally know if they are even without the press clippings. But what about Joe Staffer at a daily paper? Comedy isn't his beat. A press package comes across his desk and it looks impressive so he runs with it. And the myth is perpetuated.

As you've seen, I've been cutting and pasting the press releases from the upcoming Global Comedy Festival. When I get those, what I'm doing is looking at the name. That's it. The rest is just PR speak.

All this to let you know I've been notified of a mistake. It's one that, on first blush, makes little difference. Gerry Dee was listed as having won "Best Comic in Canada" at the 2008 Canadian Comedy Awards, when, in fact, he won "Best Male Stand-Up". But on further thought, it's a significant difference. Out of all the comics in the country – male, female, stand-ups, improvisers, sketch performers, actors – he was not voted the best. He was voted the best of male stand-up comedians. That's still impressive, but it's not what he or his press agents claimed it to be. Does it make him less funny? No, of course not. But in the immortal words of William Shakespeare, or whoever wrote his material, to thine own self be true.

Comedy's newest whipping boy

Why the constant drama, comedy?

It seems stand-up comedy needs a whipping boy. One day it's Dane Cook, another day it's Carlos Mencia. Today (the last few weeks, anyway) it's Kyle Cease. It started with Doug Stanhope's post lambasting comedy classes in general and Cease's Stand-up Boot Camp in particular.

I have no horse in this race since I have no strong opinion on comedy classes. I tend to think you can't teach funny, but having never been to a comedy class, I don't know if that's what they're trying to do. You can't teach someone to be a good painter or jazz musician, but you can give him the tools if he has a modicum of innate talent to begin with. (And please substitute 'her' and 'she' where applicable.)

Hearing comics railing about the issue is funny. But not in a ha-ha way. It sounds, from an outsider's perspective, a bit like they want us all to know they're truly special and what they do can't possibly be taught. So don't even bother. Yes, I know, they're not really saying that, but that's part of it. They're also saying any information you can get in a class, you can get for free from your fellow comics so a class is nothing but a cash grab. So be it. But isn't any kind of class a cash grab? You can pay thousands of dollars to hear a famous screenwriter give a seminar, and lots of people do. Will any of them go on to become famous screenwriters? Maybe a tiny percentage of them, but they'd probably excel without the class, too.

People attend classes and seminars for whatever reason. Some just need a kick-start. Some use it for networking. Who knows? Who cares!

But this Boot Camp costs three thousand bucks, they scream! It's a rip-off! Hey, caveat emptor, baby. If someone's willing to pay it, it's obviously worth it to them.

Who none of the critics are slamming is Louie Anderson. I don't understand that. Why does he get a free pass? Apparently he's well respected for his years in the business even though in my opinion he has never been funny. And I can't see what 30-year advice he can give that would be relevant to today's comedy wannabes. Then again, as I say, I haven't attended the boot camp so I can't be sure.

Another free pass is given to Eddie Brill, who does these kinds of classes all over the place. Maybe the particulars are different. I did sit in on one of Eddie's classes once and it looked great. Comics would perform for each other and critique each other's act, which I think is useful. But Eddie's words of advice held more sway. Now, Eddie is a peach of a guy who everyone loves. Plus he is the gatekeeper to the Holy Grail that is the Late Show with David Letterman and comedians would no doubt be wary of biting that opportunity in the butt.

If it isn't completely obvious, let me state that I don't think Eddie Brill should be slagged for his classes, just as I don't think Kyle Cease should be. I just think comics should be consistent and honest. If it's classes they don't like, you can't pick and choose. And, not that it's relevant, but Doug Stanhope is another peach of a guy (seriously!) and one of my favourite comics on Earth.

I heard Kyle on the Comedy and Everything Else podcast. He was way more serious than he was the two times on What's So Funny? but he had a bigger point to make. He was defending himself. He found himself a pariah in the only community he's been a part of for 20 years. Still, I thought he wasn't as serious as some are saying. He made lots of jokes but in a completely dry way. I had no problem with Jimmy Dore's interviewing technique, either. Some thought he was confrontational and constantly interrupting, but I thought he was respectful and interrupted no more than he does on any other episode (which, granted, is a lot but that's part of his charm).

As I mentioned, Kyle was on our program twice. The second one is lost but one remains and you can hear it on iTunes. Or right here, if you'd rather. It's a completely different Kyle Cease than you'll hear on Comedy and Everything Else. He's animated and constantly joking. Then again, it was in 2005 and he wasn't yet the outcast he's become.

Podcast episode 198ish: Doug Stanhope & Neil Hamburger

I forgot to alert you of the fact the episode with Doug Stanhope and Neil Hamburger is available now in podcast format. They are interviews I did for print but turned out well enough to run them on air. Each one is about 30 minutes long. Not bad that I got two cult icons on one show. Print interviews don't always translate well to radio for a number of factors, not the least of which are recording quality and the types of questions I need to ask. For a feature in the paper, I need to get some basic informational stuff out of the way because editors are sticklers for detail and it's not good enough to read their Wikipedia entry. In fact, Stanhope corrected something I read on Wikipedia during the interview, and he's not the first to do so. So let that be a lesson. But I edited out the boring parts so it's all gold.

You can listen to the episode here, or go download it over at iTunes. Search for it by name under What's So Funny?:

Aug. 8: LCS comics

It may feel like autumn but it really is the dog days of summer. So we're kicking back on What's So Funny? Tonight we're going to play clips from the five finalists remaining on NBC TV's Last Comic Standing, as well as clips from the three judges. That's it. Just an hour of titters, guffaws and cackles. You'll hear from Myq Kaplan, Tommy Johnagin, Mike DeStefano, Roy Wood, Jr., Felipe Esparza, Natasha Leggero, Andy Kindler and Greg Giraldo. They pick a winner tomorrow night and after listening to these longer sets from the contestants, you'll be better prepared for the outrage when Craig Robinson announces the winner.